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Old 03-29-2016, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,655 posts, read 4,600,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I still have no idea what "pace" means. Do people show up to work an hour late or something?
This gets me too. How is a city fast or slow paced? Is a city fast paced if people drive and walk faster than normal?
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Old 03-29-2016, 12:50 PM
 
3,960 posts, read 3,490,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
^^^ I kinda get what you're saying, but the topic is to consider which cities are slower paced - not for their metro size or developmental history.

I've seen analogous arguments made by posters from other cities. For example, I've seen posters from Houston (a place I called home for many years) claim that the city would be more politically liberal if its corporite limits were smaller, much like a northeastern city. Similarly, I've seen posters from Philly (were I now live) claim the city would have a lower poverty rate if its corporate limits did not take in some of the farther flung ghettos. At the end of the day, cities are what they are, and can't represent themselves as anything else.


The topic is which Large cities are slower paced. Jacksonville shouldn't be considered a large city. Technically yes is is the 12th largest city in the country by population, but it is almost double in land area or more than almost every city in the top 100, of course it's going to look bigger. Yet it has the 40th largest urbanized area. The city of Phoenix can annex the entire state of Arizona cover 114,000 sq mi, and have over 6 million people in it. Would you really consider it the 2nd largest city in the country after that?
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Old 03-29-2016, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Northeast Suburbs of PITTSBURGH
3,719 posts, read 3,572,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
Yes Denver is slower paced. I've had two different jobs where the boss has told me "just be at your desk by 9 and don't leave earlier than 4." If you try that in Dallas you'll likely miss meetings, get the stink eye from your boss, and possibly get fired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
Would Denver be considered slow pace, or not? From my observation, people here aren't always in a hurry for no apparent reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I still have no idea what "pace" means. Do people show up to work an hour late or something?
This.
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,416 posts, read 11,920,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
This gets me too. How is a city fast or slow paced? Is a city fast paced if people drive and walk faster than normal?
I had a thread about this subject a few months back, and no good answers came up.

I have to wonder if people who didn't grow up in the Northeast Corridor just tend to grossly stereotype about the area because they aren't from there. I mean, I've known New Yorkers who like nothing better than to take two hour lunches if they can get away with it.

As far as I can tell, "pace" would be most strongly associated with conscientiousness when considering the "big five" personality traits that psychologists believe are fundamental. Conscientiousness basically is a measure of how thorough, careful, and vigilant someone is. Someone who has a high conscientiousness is organized, a hard worker, and great with deadlines. Someone with low conscientiousness is messy, lazy, and procrastinates. The trait does vary across the states. Let's see how it does...



Hrrm. The highest values are in the Bible Belt. The lowest values are in the Northeast. Northeasterners are the most naturally "lazy" people in the country.
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
8,725 posts, read 7,676,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post

I have to wonder if people who didn't grow up in the Northeast Corridor just tend to grossly stereotype about the area because they aren't from there. I mean, I've known New Yorkers who like nothing better than to take two hour lunches if they can get away with it.
A lot of people at my place of employment are in no hurry to return from lunch.

I too don't really know what "pace" means. From what I gather, it tends to just be another word for "density." I guess the northeast somehow seems "faster" because there are more people out on the streets? Or maybe some people are impatient waiting to get into trains because they don't want to be standing for their 45 minute 3.5 mile commute downtown?

Given how much people in Boston are constantly on their cell phone, certainly doesn't seem like they have a whole lot to do.
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Miami-Jax
6,312 posts, read 6,967,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
I find this POV incredibly suburb centric. As someone who spent his entire life in cities, I can't tell you how little impact the outlying metro area has had in shaping my urban experience. Metro may matter for Sunbelt cities, but legacy cities thrive on the population density of their urban core, and not the fact that 1 million people live within a 45 minute drive. Every city that people say out punches it's class, happens to be dense and urban. In these cases it is always the city, and not the metro that matters.
As has been noted, mjlo's point was that Jax is not really a "big city" for the purposes of this thread. It is a big city if you judge strictly by how city limits are defined, but in reality it is just a 1.4 million metro which would be midsize at best by most people's judgment. This does not conflict with your view that urban experience is independent of metro size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
I must be communicating my point wrong. I'm not arguing for or against Jacksonville's level of urbanity. It is as urban it's counterparts that have emerged in the auto-centric era of infrastructure. It is LESS urban than it's counterparts that emerged before. It is not a standout as more suburban than other sunbelt cities. That's not to say it isn't below it's potential as a city. I am simply saying the city is representative of a metro area with 1.4 million people. It not more quiet than it should be, or punching under its weight. It's right where it feels like it would be for as many people live in it's MSA.
I almost always agree with what you say about Jax, but just want to point out one slight misconception which I've seen you state twice in recent days...Jax's urban areas did not develop post-automobile era. Yes, the explosion of suburban growth is a direct result of that and more, but prior to that time Jax had already been entrenched as one of the largest cities in the south for about 4 decades. In 1930 the city had 59 miles of streetcar for an area of 26 sq miles, and nearly 20 million passengers a year. Throughout the urban core and inner ring suburbs you will find traditional street grid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
Curious what its population density would be at 70 sq. mi....
I'm pretty certain I've seen those numbers (and much more) broken down on Metrojacksonville. While I don't have time to go digging for all of that...I do have this:

Elements Of Urbanism: 1940s Jacksonville | Metro Jacksonville

Which shows that in 1940 the city limits were 30 sq miles with a pop of 173,065, yielding a rather dense 5700/sq mile. This number is lower today and expanding out to 70 sq miles should drop it a bit more (though not a whole lot).
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Old 03-29-2016, 02:14 PM
 
3,960 posts, read 3,490,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectmaximus View Post

I almost always agree with what you say about Jax, but just want to point out one slight misconception which I've seen you state twice in recent days...Jax's urban areas did not develop post-automobile era. Yes, the explosion of suburban growth is a direct result of that and more, but prior to that time Jax had already been entrenched as one of the largest cities in the south for about 4 decades. In 1930 the city had 59 miles of streetcar for an area of 26 sq miles, and nearly 20 million passengers a year. Throughout the urban core and inner ring suburbs you will find traditional street grid.

You are correct I apologize. I've stated in other threads that Jacksonville is more urban than some of it's Floridian/Sunbelt siblings. I don't know how to properly quantify the amount of pre-automobile infrastructure relative to the size of city it was back then, let alone get people on this web-site to understand that. It was one of the few southern cities to experience decentralization in the 50's/60's after that it's development patterns shifted to more suburban styles. It's urban infrastructure more represents the 200k person city it was pre-consolidation.
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Old 03-29-2016, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,416 posts, read 11,920,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
A lot of people at my place of employment are in no hurry to return from lunch.

I too don't really know what "pace" means. From what I gather, it tends to just be another word for "density." I guess the northeast somehow seems "faster" because there are more people out on the streets? Or maybe some people are impatient waiting to get into trains because they don't want to be standing for their 45 minute 3.5 mile commute downtown?

Given how much people in Boston are constantly on their cell phone, certainly doesn't seem like they have a whole lot to do.
I do think it's true that people who live in big cities, especially in the Northeast, tend to have a faster walking speed. I don't see how this connects in any way to being "always on" or "part of the ratrace" however.
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Old 03-29-2016, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
8,725 posts, read 7,676,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I do think it's true that people who live in big cities, especially in the Northeast, tend to have a faster walking speed. I don't see how this connects in any way to being "always on" or "part of the ratrace" however.
Maybe, but not convinced. I walk very fast, not because I live in Boston or because I'm from Cleveland or whatever. I am just 6'1'' with long legs. I am always behind slow people here in the northeast, mostly because they're pretty much all slow.

A lot of people jog over here though, noticeably more than other places I've lived.
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Old 03-29-2016, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,416 posts, read 11,920,328 times
Reputation: 10536
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectmaximus View Post
I almost always agree with what you say about Jax, but just want to point out one slight misconception which I've seen you state twice in recent days...Jax's urban areas did not develop post-automobile era. Yes, the explosion of suburban growth is a direct result of that and more, but prior to that time Jax had already been entrenched as one of the largest cities in the south for about 4 decades. In 1930 the city had 59 miles of streetcar for an area of 26 sq miles, and nearly 20 million passengers a year. Throughout the urban core and inner ring suburbs you will find traditional street grid.



I'm pretty certain I've seen those numbers (and much more) broken down on Metrojacksonville. While I don't have time to go digging for all of that...I do have this:

Elements Of Urbanism: 1940s Jacksonville | Metro Jacksonville

Which shows that in 1940 the city limits were 30 sq miles with a pop of 173,065, yielding a rather dense 5700/sq mile. This number is lower today and expanding out to 70 sq miles should drop it a bit more (though not a whole lot).
I'm glad you post on this forum, because otherwise I would know nothing about Jax. Can you tell me what the urban neighborhoods in the city are? When I look on streetview it seems to go straight from Downtown to suburban.
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