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Old 05-11-2016, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
8,719 posts, read 7,669,607 times
Reputation: 7619

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Unless the feds decide to end farm subsidies, and then yeah... the end of that.
And they absolutely SHOULD end these subsidies. Also skeptical of these cities.

Columbus shouldn't get education subsidies either. I'm looking at you, Ohio State.

So you do get the idea that subsidies distort an economy, but can't see the state propping up of Columbus. Fascinating.
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Old 05-11-2016, 02:22 PM
 
11,172 posts, read 22,363,867 times
Reputation: 10919
Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
Don't forget that the underlying economic base for both Des Moines and Sioux Falls is agriculture, and I think that may still be true about Minneapolis. Even if insurance and health care take a hit, ag will always be there.
I can't speak of Sioux Falls, but again, why do you think agriculture is the underlying economic base of Des Moines? It really has no impact on the city.....

Insurance is the big player, with the Principal Financial Group, EMC Insurance Group, Fidelity & Guaranty Life, Allied Insurance, Wellmark Blue Cross Blue Shield and American Republic Insurance Company headquartered there.

As a center of financial and insurance services, other major corporations headquartered outside of Iowa have established a presence in the Des Moines Metro area, including Wells Fargo, Voya Financial, and Electronic Data Systems. The Meredith Corporation, a leading publishing and marketing company, is also based in Des Moines.
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Old 05-11-2016, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
8,719 posts, read 7,669,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
Minneapolis has been growing at its current rate (more or less) since the end of WWII. It isn't like it is some sudden boomtown. Its largest sector is agribusiness. It is the main financial and commercial hub of the northern plains in the same way that Boston is for New England or Atlanta is for the southeast. It also has a larger manufacturing sector than most other major metros in the Midwest because it never lost its manufacturing base (which is centered around food processing but is highly diversified).
Minnesota still enjoys quite a bit of subsidy when it comes to food.

Safety net helps Minnesota corn, soybean producers - StarTribune.com

Any manufacturing related to food is going to be distorted by agricultural subsidies.

Even still: MNI releases list of top U.S. cities by number of industrial jobs

Minneapolis has fewer industrial jobs than several midwestern cities, such as Wichita (major subsidy receiver), Indianapolis, Cleveland,Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Chicago. So it seems like Minneapolis is more middle of the pack than really a leader in this regard in the midwest.
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Old 05-11-2016, 03:06 PM
 
992 posts, read 937,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
I guess Minneapolis, Columbus and Indianapolis would be the best candidates? None are really booming, but all are outliers in terms of relative population/economic growth.
This; the Midwest isn't really booming, but these cities (along with Kansas City) are doing pretty well for themselves.
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Old 05-11-2016, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,331 posts, read 3,052,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Minnesota still enjoys quite a bit of subsidy when it comes to food.

Safety net helps Minnesota corn, soybean producers - StarTribune.com

Any manufacturing related to food is going to be distorted by agricultural subsidies.

Even still: MNI releases list of top U.S. cities by number of industrial jobs

Minneapolis has fewer industrial jobs than several midwestern cities, such as Wichita (major subsidy receiver), Indianapolis, Cleveland,Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Chicago. So it seems like Minneapolis is more middle of the pack than really a leader in this regard in the midwest.

Agricultural subsidies have little impact on food processing because demand is roughly the same regardless of price. People have to eat and in North America (which is the market MSP serves) price is not a barrier to consumption.


As for manufacturing jobs in general, your numbers are garbage. Check out the Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers on this link:


Tables Created by BLS


What you want to look at is "2015 Annual Average Tables - Employees on nonfarm payrolls in states and selected areas by major industry". It is the fourth line from the bottom. It has manufacturing employment for metro areas. Here are 1,000,000+ MSAs ranked by manufacturing jobs:


Los Angeles 521,600
Chicago 414,100
New York 368,100
Dallas 263,000
Houston 246,900
Detroit 229,200
Minneapolis 194,200
Boston 191,900
Seattle 188,000
Philadelphia 181,300
San Jose 161,600
Atlanta 157,700
San Francisco 126,400
Cleveland 124,700
Portland 121,800
Milwaukee 121,000
Phoenix 119,000
St Louis 114,000
Cincinnati 113,300
San Diego 105,300
Charlotte 104,100
Grand Rapids 103,300
Riverside 95,600
Indianapolis 90,300
Pittsburgh 87,600
Miami 84,200
Nashville 79,100
Kansas City 74,200
Columbus 71,500
Denver 68,100
Tampa 61,900
Austin 57,600
Hartford 55,600
Salt Lake City 55,100
Baltimore 54,100
Virginia Beach - Norfolk 53,500
Washington DC 52,800
Buffalo 52,000
Providence 51,800
San Antonio 46,900
Memphis 45,200
Orlando 41,300
Oklahoma City 37,600
Sacramento 36,300
Raleigh 33,900
Richmond 30,800
New Orleans 30,600
Las Vegas 21,600
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,093 posts, read 13,477,370 times
Reputation: 5766
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
lol here we go again.

When you say "recovery" do you mean "quantitative easing?"

These are not the same thing. We never bottomed out. But sure, ignore simple math and basic economic truths. You're certainly free to do so. Hopefully you won't come back to this post on this forum some years down the road and regret your ignorance, but you might.
So again, you seem to be bringing up potential problems that would not affect specific cities, but would be national issues for all. This is what I mean. Your post specifically targeted 2 cities as vulnerable, but if you're talking about artificial bubbles, it wouldn't just be a negative for Columbus or Minneapolis. You have yet to really explain what conditions would affect them and leave more manufacturing-based cities like Cleveland unscathed (especially when pretty much all economic downturns have hurt the latter cities far more). Until you can, this just seems agenda-driven rather than an honest discussion on potential vulnerabilities in the economy.

Last edited by jbcmh81; 05-12-2016 at 12:41 AM..
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,093 posts, read 13,477,370 times
Reputation: 5766
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
And they absolutely SHOULD end these subsidies. Also skeptical of these cities.

Columbus shouldn't get education subsidies either. I'm looking at you, Ohio State.

So you do get the idea that subsidies distort an economy, but can't see the state propping up of Columbus. Fascinating.
You're so weirdly hyper-focused on only those that might benefit certain places, yet strangely ignore the multitude of others that may benefit others. Government dollars go to a huge number of things that can be argued "prop up" economies. Manufacturing receives public dollars all the time. The multi-billion-dollar auto bailout propped up how many failing companies and their jobs in manufacturing cities in the Midwest? Or how about how public dollars go into all manner of public services EVERYWHERE, including massive subsidies on roads, public infrastructure like parks, schools, libraries, hospitals, airports, water ports, etc. How about police and fire? Waste management? Public utilities like water and electric? Public money, whether federal, state or local, creates a huge number of direct and indirect jobs. You can sit there and do what you always do and try to nitpick and create artificial and dishonest distinctions about which cities benefit more, but it is a complete waste of time and it is based on little more than emotionally-driven agendas. You want publicly-funded subsidies to cease? Then stop being a total hypocrite and begin calling it out EVERYWHERE and in all cases, because this is not an OSU issue or a Columbus issue or an Ohio issue. It is completely ingrained into the economic base of every single place in America. What's fascinating is the question of whether or not you actually understand this.
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,557 posts, read 17,535,380 times
Reputation: 27607
I'd say Des Moines or Minneapolis. Des Moines is still relatively small and flies under the radar. I'm in Indianapolis now and lived in Des Moines for a year - Indy has a handful of happening neighborhoods and some really nice suburbs, but most of the core city is blighted and bad off. Economy is also on fire in Iowa - not as much here.
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Old 05-12-2016, 01:24 PM
 
5,819 posts, read 5,178,928 times
Reputation: 17729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
I can't speak of Sioux Falls, but again, why do you think agriculture is the underlying economic base of Des Moines? It really has no impact on the city.....

Insurance is the big player, with the Principal Financial Group, EMC Insurance Group, Fidelity & Guaranty Life, Allied Insurance, Wellmark Blue Cross Blue Shield and American Republic Insurance Company headquartered there.

As a center of financial and insurance services, other major corporations headquartered outside of Iowa have established a presence in the Des Moines Metro area, including Wells Fargo, Voya Financial, and Electronic Data Systems. The Meredith Corporation, a leading publishing and marketing company, is also based in Des Moines.
Both the financial and insurance industries in Des Moines are completely tied to the regional agricultural economy. A huge amount of money is in play here. The market value of agricultural products in Iowa is the 2nd highest of all of the states in the United States. Source: USDA NASS 2015.

It is irrelevant what % of people are actually farming. What is relevant is how much revenue agriculture is bringing into the state/region. And Des Moines is the financial center of the region.

If you want to argue about the various controversies surrounding Big Ag, that's a completely different conversation.

No one is saying that people are farming within the urban area of Des Moines.
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Old 05-13-2016, 07:46 AM
 
217 posts, read 235,124 times
Reputation: 198
I moved to Des Moines 2-3 years ago

Insurance is what this economy is all about. Also corn. Des Moines insurance companies are extremely conservative financially and weathered the economic crisis well. Never relied on real estate investments to heavily.

Hopefully it gets on the map so we can a little diversity here or some better food choices at least. What they don't tell you is most of the population growth is from ppl moving from other counties in Iowa. Nebraska, and Missouri too. Doesn't feel like a booming metro when it's just your neighbors coming over.

The airport is growing nicely too. It is already way better than Omaha and runs more smoothly than KC just needs a few more direct flights to some further destinations.

Iowa is also an ideal location for wind turbines and has made big gains in sustainable energy.

Last edited by Juice Malone; 05-13-2016 at 08:01 AM..
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