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Florida is flat but the weather is arguably better in the far southern part. Culturally its different from what I'm used to I think for the most part...
Subjective on location, not all of CA is expensive nor is all of FL or other states you can move to. I got a serious pay bump moving here from SoFLa and I never would have done it otherwise. The biggest cost factor here is housing, I really do not consider taxes to be so bad since I lived in other states that took plenty in taxes as well, the no state income tax thing is FL is a misnomer when your salary is often adjusted lower and you are paying more for other things.
When I look at my expenses compared to SoFLa it cost me more in relation to live there than here, even with higher car registration fees that is all cancelled out with spare change after what I was paying for car insurance. Food costs are much lower, there is so much competition here and not just one player like what exists in SoFLa where Publix is a monopoly.
I do not drive far to work anymore so the fuel costs are not an issue for me, since I live and work in North County many of my coworkers drive farther, many drive Hybrids, a few commute from LA and Orange County.
We are renting at the moment and found rentals for homes here to be comparable in cost to rent if not less than SoFla depending on location.
Property Taxes in SoFLa are high, since the rebound in the housing market it has gone up as is Homeowner's insurance due to the Hurricanes.
You can buy a home for less in SoFla but it will cost you plenty to own annually in taxes and insurance costs, if they have another bad Hurricane season anytime soon, it will get even worse.
My wife and I did not hate FL, we actually loved it and it was a tough decision to leave but the career options and salaries are just terrible for our careers, so we rode the storm long enough.
"$180 to $250K", to buy a nice home in the locations everyone thinks of when they here "CA", yes, with kids, sure, single wage earner or dual income, renter I don't think so.
You just touched on my exactly. The basis for my comment is as follows:
- family of four
- living in an upscale safe neighborhood (own home)
- a property larger than a postage stamp
- kids go to top rated schools
- fully funded college funds set aside
- top notch health care
- fully funding a retirement account for parents
- excellent insurance coverage (CA is a very litigous place)
Cities in California such as Los Angeles, Long Beach, San Francisco and Oakland are much older and more established than those in Florida, so they tend to be more urban, walkable, densely-populated and cosmopolitan by comparison.
Public transportation infrastructure is more comprehensive and utilization rates, higher in California than in Florida. There are also more collective efforts among legislators, citizens and special interest groups alike to expand public transportation infrastructure and increase utilization to reduce automobile dependency and, in the process, improve the general flow of traffic in the state's largest metropolitan areas.
California cities also have far more pre-WWII architecture compared to Florida, the latter of which wasn't really developed until the advent of air conditioning in the mid-to-late 20th century. That’s not to mention that, from the 1970’s onward, Florida developers pretty much bulldozed what remained in terms of early-to-mid 20th century structures to make way for new development. Historical preservation is not one of Florida’s strong suits.
Overall, California has much more pleasant weather than Florida - much less humid and stormy; cooler, drier springs, summers, and autumns; significantly less potential for dangerous weather events such as thunderstorms, tornadoes, hurricanes and tropical depressions; and less potential for severe flooding. Not to mention there’s far more climatic variation in California, ranging from Mediterranean, oceanic, alpine, high and low desert, etc.
In Florida, it rains nearly every day for 8-9 months and the intense humidity lasts for 9-10 months, depending on the year. The "rainy season" in Florida, which starts in early-to-mid May and lasts until late October, can be very gloomy. "Clear" days, at least by California standards, are almost non-existent in Florida, especially in the summertime.
The nature and varied terrain of California - ocean, mountain, and desert vistas; canyons; forests; grasslands; wetlands; etc. - is much more spectacular than the flat, uninspiring swampy scrubland scenery of Florida. FWIW, snow-capped mountain vistas aren't visible from the beach in Florida, not that any type of mountain vistas exist in Florida to begin with.
For those of you arguing that beaches are "better" in Florida than those in California, name a beach in Florida that's more spectacular than Strands, Monarch, or Thousand Steps Beach or Abalone Cove in Southern California or Big Sur on the Central Coast. Ya, didn't think so.
The milder, less volatile weather and more varied terrain of coastal California encourage outdoor activity and recreation, helping California attain its status as one of the healthiest states in the country. Hiking, mountain biking and surfing among other outdoor recreational activities are much more popular in California. Although better than most Southern states in health metrics, Florida has higher incidences of smoking, obesity, and chronic illness such as diabetes and hypertension than California, partly due to more lower-income individuals and families and less emphasis on active, healthy lifestyles overall.
California has a stronger, more diversified economy than Florida. There's a larger corporate presence and more well-paying industry in California such as IT, biotech, nanotech, life sciences, and investment banking to name a few, so your average Californian tends to be higher earning and more gainfully employed than your average Floridian. Even low-wage, low-skill workers in the manufacturing, trade, and healthcare sectors in California enjoy higher comparative wages, more comprehensive non-wage benefits and better state-level rights and protections than their counterparts in Florida, which is a RTW state with very limited union participation rates. Compared to California, Florida has a service-oriented economy with a strong hospitality/tourism orientation, a sector that is notorious for low wages, limited non-wage benefits and non-existent upward economic mobility. Consistent with Arizona, the service-oriented economy of Florida neither breeds nor attracts highly ambitious youth, so a lot of younger people in Florida tend to be apathetic and complacent. The younger people who are educated and career-oriented tend to move to other states after college, up to and including California.
California is home to a much better educated, more talented workforce - and general populace, for that matter - than Florida, which is one of the reasons why so much modern innovation comes from California. In addition to a strong history of innovation, California has a more competitive ethos, entrepreneurial spirit and intellectual vibe than Florida. This, of course, is due to a multitude of factors, but primarily the greater abundance of well-paying industry as well as more prestigious institutions of higher learning in California.
Because Florida is less educated and cosmopolitan than California in general, you'll encounter much more intolerance and small-mindedness in Florida than in California, not to mention much less support for progressive ideals and movements such as hybrid and electric cars, the "green" movement (i.e., recycling, curbing emissions, etc.), medical marijuana, same-sex marriage, organic eating and living, farmers markets and community-supported agriculture, smoking bans, caps on land development and so forth.
People are a lot more open, tolerant, and accepting in California - no cares what religion you are, where you're from or who you sleep with. There's definitely more of a counterculture element in California compared to just about anywhere in Florida - more hippies, more nature-lovers, more spiritual folks, etc. There's also significantly less tolerance for aggression, shadiness and deviance. Overall, I find California to be a much more humane place than Florida.
In reality, living in Florida is like living in the South, but without the politeness, friendliness and hospitality. The general lack of civility and common courtesy in the major cities is frightening and is due in large part to "six degrees of separation." People are friendlier and more pleasant in California than in Florida, hands down, which is a far less transient, anonymous society.
Unlike California, Florida is loaded with miserable transplants from the Northeast, although mostly New York and New Jersey, who have that lousy "tough-guy" attitude that remains in place even after living in Florida for 20 years - constantly striving to be rude, argumentative, combative, ghetto, shrewd, "street-smart" or some other variant of "tough" while trying to deceive or "put one over" on you in any way possible.
Then, you have to contend with the shady transient element in Florida. IME, everyone down there has a story, and most of the time, it's not pretty. Lots of people in Florida are running from something in their past - a violent ex, a criminal record, an abusive childhood, a history of drug and/or alcohol abuse, a dysfunctional family of origin, a series of legal disputes, etc. People have a lot of "baggage" down there, for sure, which is why there's much more crime and many more drug and social issues in Florida than in California, generally speaking.
However, the worst part about Florida, IMO, is the transplants who move down from the Tri-State area and into shiny new tract homes in gated communities, thinking they've "arrived" like the second coming of the Messiah. Before long, these people think they're rich and, in their minds, "rich" people are rude, even though most people with family and long-term wealth are quite down-to-earth (as anyone who has spent any time at all in California knows). So now, these people begin looking down their noses at people in service industry jobs, treating them like crap. While living in South Florida, I witnessed absolutely horrid behavior among transplants, especially older ones, when talking to store clerks or restaurant servers. I never witnessed anything even remotely comparable in Southern California.
Believe it or not, most of the people who live in California were born in California, so there's a much stronger, more well-defined state culture, and civic pride and engagement levels tend to be higher. There's less in the way of voter apathy in California, and all of the professional sports teams have larger, more dedicated fan-bases than any team I can think of in Florida, where most sporting events draw larger away-team crowds than home-team crowds. To say that there's a stronger sense of community in your average California communities vs. your average Florida community is an understatement.
California is a lot less transient, too. In addition to many more natives - and very proud, dyed-in-the-wool natives, I might add - California is the type of place where people move to, assimilate to the local culture, and stay whereas Florida, OTOH, is more of a place where people come, complain and leave. People in California pledge their allegiance to California, even if they're from elsewhere originally, whereas people in Florida are more likely to pledge their allegiance to New York, Massachusetts, Illinois or whatever crap-hole Eastern state they crawled out of. That alone should speak volumes to anyone deciding between the two states.
I've lived in both, and without a doubt, the weather, scenery, culture, people and lifestyle among other facets of California are vastly superior to that of Florida. It's not even much of a contest, really.
California, FTW.
Thank you for your post. Everything you touched upon is 100% correct. I always wondered why Florida was the magnet for those type of people. Your response really makes me think.
Well put!! If one doesn't have an "upper income" in most of California life can be a struggle. I know it's tacky to put a number on income but for the most part, in my opinioIn, one needs to make $180-250k to be really comfortable. Let the negative pounding begin!
If people had to make that kind of salary in order to live in California I think California would only have a quarter of the population it has now.
You just touched on my exactly. The basis for my comment is as follows:
- family of four
- living in an upscale safe neighborhood (own home)
- a property larger than a postage stamp
- kids go to top rated schools
- fully funded college funds set aside
- top notch health care
- fully funding a retirement account for parents
- excellent insurance coverage (CA is a very litigous place)
If you want good education for kids, moving to Florida is hit or miss as they pay teachers quite poorly, most of the people I knew moved to specific high rated school zones or areas that had better rated schools or were wealthy enough to afford private schools some of which cost upwards of $25K a year per child. Around my areas the Private Schools were on the low side $10 to $15K and up. Boca Raton is noted for Private Schools, St. Andrews and Pinecrest School, both of which are very expensive to attend.
Zero lot line properties are also common in SoFla, though you can get more space in certain areas or if you have money to buy more. It's all dependent on whether or not you can get a job that pay's enough to afford it, just like here. Again depends on where you want to live.
Health Care in San Diego is noted for being quite good. It wasn't bad in SoFla either, I had great Doctors, but if you are on your employer's insurance it depends then how well "top notch" it is.
No matter where you go in the country in this day and age, much of what you detailed would take a higher than average combined household income to achieve, wish you best of luck in finding Utopia, having lived in 4 states, I saw my income and expenses bounce all over the place. Some places had cheap rent but high real estate taxes, income taxes and low incomes and much of what you detailed would be hard to achieve on 1 income if you had young children and a stay at home Mom to take care of them to avoid the daycare/aftercare costs.
Cities in California such as Los Angeles, Long Beach, San Francisco and Oakland are much older and more established than those in Florida, so they tend to be more urban, walkable, densely-populated and cosmopolitan by comparison.
Public transportation infrastructure is more comprehensive and utilization rates, higher in California than in Florida. There are also more collective efforts among legislators, citizens and special interest groups alike to expand public transportation infrastructure and increase utilization to reduce automobile dependency and, in the process, improve the general flow of traffic in the state's largest metropolitan areas.
California cities also have far more pre-WWII architecture compared to Florida, the latter of which wasn't really developed until the advent of air conditioning in the mid-to-late 20th century. That’s not to mention that, from the 1970’s onward, Florida developers pretty much bulldozed what remained in terms of early-to-mid 20th century structures to make way for new development. Historical preservation is not one of Florida’s strong suits.
Overall, California has much more pleasant weather than Florida - much less humid and stormy; cooler, drier springs, summers, and autumns; significantly less potential for dangerous weather events such as thunderstorms, tornadoes, hurricanes and tropical depressions; and less potential for severe flooding. Not to mention there’s far more climatic variation in California, ranging from Mediterranean, oceanic, alpine, high and low desert, etc.
In Florida, it rains nearly every day for 8-9 months and the intense humidity lasts for 9-10 months, depending on the year. The "rainy season" in Florida, which starts in early-to-mid May and lasts until late October, can be very gloomy. "Clear" days, at least by California standards, are almost non-existent in Florida, especially in the summertime.
The nature and varied terrain of California - ocean, mountain, and desert vistas; canyons; forests; grasslands; wetlands; etc. - is much more spectacular than the flat, uninspiring swampy scrubland scenery of Florida. FWIW, snow-capped mountain vistas aren't visible from the beach in Florida, not that any type of mountain vistas exist in Florida to begin with.
For those of you arguing that beaches are "better" in Florida than those in California, name a beach in Florida that's more spectacular than Strands, Monarch, or Thousand Steps Beach or Abalone Cove in Southern California or Big Sur on the Central Coast. Ya, didn't think so.
The milder, less volatile weather and more varied terrain of coastal California encourage outdoor activity and recreation, helping California attain its status as one of the healthiest states in the country. Hiking, mountain biking and surfing among other outdoor recreational activities are much more popular in California. Although better than most Southern states in health metrics, Florida has higher incidences of smoking, obesity, and chronic illness such as diabetes and hypertension than California, partly due to more lower-income individuals and families and less emphasis on active, healthy lifestyles overall.
California has a stronger, more diversified economy than Florida. There's a larger corporate presence and more well-paying industry in California such as IT, biotech, nanotech, life sciences, and investment banking to name a few, so your average Californian tends to be higher earning and more gainfully employed than your average Floridian. Even low-wage, low-skill workers in the manufacturing, trade, and healthcare sectors in California enjoy higher comparative wages, more comprehensive non-wage benefits and better state-level rights and protections than their counterparts in Florida, which is a RTW state with very limited union participation rates. Compared to California, Florida has a service-oriented economy with a strong hospitality/tourism orientation, a sector that is notorious for low wages, limited non-wage benefits and non-existent upward economic mobility. Consistent with Arizona, the service-oriented economy of Florida neither breeds nor attracts highly ambitious youth, so a lot of younger people in Florida tend to be apathetic and complacent. The younger people who are educated and career-oriented tend to move to other states after college, up to and including California.
California is home to a much better educated, more talented workforce - and general populace, for that matter - than Florida, which is one of the reasons why so much modern innovation comes from California. In addition to a strong history of innovation, California has a more competitive ethos, entrepreneurial spirit and intellectual vibe than Florida. This, of course, is due to a multitude of factors, but primarily the greater abundance of well-paying industry as well as more prestigious institutions of higher learning in California.
Because Florida is less educated and cosmopolitan than California in general, you'll encounter much more intolerance and small-mindedness in Florida than in California, not to mention much less support for progressive ideals and movements such as hybrid and electric cars, the "green" movement (i.e., recycling, curbing emissions, etc.), medical marijuana, same-sex marriage, organic eating and living, farmers markets and community-supported agriculture, smoking bans, caps on land development and so forth.
People are a lot more open, tolerant, and accepting in California - no cares what religion you are, where you're from or who you sleep with. There's definitely more of a counterculture element in California compared to just about anywhere in Florida - more hippies, more nature-lovers, more spiritual folks, etc. There's also significantly less tolerance for aggression, shadiness and deviance. Overall, I find California to be a much more humane place than Florida.
In reality, living in Florida is like living in the South, but without the politeness, friendliness and hospitality. The general lack of civility and common courtesy in the major cities is frightening and is due in large part to "six degrees of separation." People are friendlier and more pleasant in California than in Florida, hands down, which is a far less transient, anonymous society.
Unlike California, Florida is loaded with miserable transplants from the Northeast, although mostly New York and New Jersey, who have that lousy "tough-guy" attitude that remains in place even after living in Florida for 20 years - constantly striving to be rude, argumentative, combative, ghetto, shrewd, "street-smart" or some other variant of "tough" while trying to deceive or "put one over" on you in any way possible.
Then, you have to contend with the shady transient element in Florida. IME, everyone down there has a story, and most of the time, it's not pretty. Lots of people in Florida are running from something in their past - a violent ex, a criminal record, an abusive childhood, a history of drug and/or alcohol abuse, a dysfunctional family of origin, a series of legal disputes, etc. People have a lot of "baggage" down there, for sure, which is why there's much more crime and many more drug and social issues in Florida than in California, generally speaking.
However, the worst part about Florida, IMO, is the transplants who move down from the Tri-State area and into shiny new tract homes in gated communities, thinking they've "arrived" like the second coming of the Messiah. Before long, these people think they're rich and, in their minds, "rich" people are rude, even though most people with family and long-term wealth are quite down-to-earth (as anyone who has spent any time at all in California knows). So now, these people begin looking down their noses at people in service industry jobs, treating them like crap. While living in South Florida, I witnessed absolutely horrid behavior among transplants, especially older ones, when talking to store clerks or restaurant servers. I never witnessed anything even remotely comparable in Southern California.
Believe it or not, most of the people who live in California were born in California, so there's a much stronger, more well-defined state culture, and civic pride and engagement levels tend to be higher. There's less in the way of voter apathy in California, and all of the professional sports teams have larger, more dedicated fan-bases than any team I can think of in Florida, where most sporting events draw larger away-team crowds than home-team crowds. To say that there's a stronger sense of community in your average California communities vs. your average Florida community is an understatement.
California is a lot less transient, too. In addition to many more natives - and very proud, dyed-in-the-wool natives, I might add - California is the type of place where people move to, assimilate to the local culture, and stay whereas Florida, OTOH, is more of a place where people come, complain and leave. People in California pledge their allegiance to California, even if they're from elsewhere originally, whereas people in Florida are more likely to pledge their allegiance to New York, Massachusetts, Illinois or whatever crap-hole Eastern state they crawled out of. That alone should speak volumes to anyone deciding between the two states.
I've lived in both, and without a doubt, the weather, scenery, culture, people and lifestyle among other facets of California are vastly superior to that of Florida. It's not even much of a contest, really.
California, FTW.
Some truth in what you wrote, but not 100% and I'm too tired to comment right now. I can say that I'll never get why people compare FL to CA, it's like comparing Italy to the Bahamas, Caribbean with respect to SoFla vs Mediterranean for CA along the Coast, but CA has a much more diverse climate and topography, microclimates do not exist in Florida, it does tend to get warmer inland, more humid along the coast it's not so bad on the Atlantic side, Gulf Side is more humid and the water is like bathwater. Plenty of nice beaches, along the Atlantic Coast, down to the Key's and up the Gulf Coast to the Pan Handle. Again a different type of beach, Caribbean feel, water is warmer and usable unless you are a die hard surfer. Different marine life, Sea Turtles and etc.
I agree with you on the attitudes, not sure where in SoFla you lived, I lived in the West Palm Beach Area and I worked throughout the county along the coast over my time there. The further south you go, the worst it get's with people, the NY attitude is prevalent and there is a lot of crabby old people who are very rude, the good thing though with the NY influence is the food quality, mainly Italian which is really lacking so far out here.
If you love Mexican and Sourdough, San Diego in general is it, so far in North County which claims to have some great restaurants, I have tried several flops that had 4.5 ratings on Yelp, obviously people from CA do not know good East Coast common food, nothing personal, but I had some really bad Italian, Greek and other Ethnic foods that are much better in SoFLa and the East Coast in general, but the Mexican so far is as expected and for good reason with the location. Granted I have not tried everything and have not been to too many places yet, but just within my local area. I did find decent Pizza recently, but still not even close to what I use to get in SoFla or the East Coast.
Due to the Tourist and vibe in SoFla, they cater to the wealthy and tourism is big, Seasonal types and Palm Beachers, well the plethora of restaurants and ethnic cuisines/types of food and quality is way above what I have had here for the most part at the moment.
Produce is much better here than Florida and the traffic is not as bad, but there are areas where it is bad. More people seem to work here than in SoFla.
While I have found somethings here to be lacking I'm giving it time, since I need to explore the area to be fair.
I do not miss a lot of the people in SoFla or driving, I hated my commute and the way people drove.
Biggest thing is like what you said, educated work force and opportunity. For the most part, Florida is a service oriented state with low paying jobs, SoFla the most expensive part of the state is just that even more, while there is some good paying jobs, they are typically in Healthcare or Local Government, private sector jobs are often below the averages and not representative of the high COL that exists there.
I also noticed at least in North County that I rarely see African Americans, I'm not use to that at all, because in all the states I lived most of the areas had a high % of AA, not here. Also people here tend to not dress too well compared to SoFla, though we had sloppy people it seems here that is the norm, I often do not see woman dressed too nice like I saw in SoFla, I'm married but I did see more beautiful people in SoFla than here, well aside from the local news channels, most of the woman are quite plain and also seems a lot of the people are overweight, young kids. Not sure how the summer looks on the beach, but while you would see out of shape people on the beaches in SoFla, there were people in good shape and also smokers are prevalent here, maybe not as much but still annoyed some people smoke near buildings and don't follow the foot rule.
Thank you for your post. Everything you touched upon is 100% correct. I always wondered why Florida was the magnet for those type of people. Your response really makes me think.
Hes 98% correct. Florida deoes have nicer, softer, warmer beaches and water. Boating, diving, and beach going is all better in Florida. The beaches are some of the best in the world on the Gulf.
But CA for everything else and its not a close call.
If you want good education for kids, moving to Florida is hit or miss as they pay teachers quite poorly, most of the people I knew moved to specific high rated school zones or areas that had better rated schools or were wealthy enough to afford private schools some of which cost upwards of $25K a year per child. Around my areas the Private Schools were on the low side $10 to $15K and up. Boca Raton is noted for Private Schools, St. Andrews and Pinecrest School, both of which are very expensive to attend.
Zero lot line properties are also common in SoFla, though you can get more space in certain areas or if you have money to buy more. It's all dependent on whether or not you can get a job that pay's enough to afford it, just like here. Again depends on where you want to live.
Health Care in San Diego is noted for being quite good. It wasn't bad in SoFla either, I had great Doctors, but if you are on your employer's insurance it depends then how well "top notch" it is.
No matter where you go in the country in this day and age, much of what you detailed would take a higher than average combined household income to achieve, wish you best of luck in finding Utopia, having lived in 4 states, I saw my income and expenses bounce all over the place. Some places had cheap rent but high real estate taxes, income taxes and low incomes and much of what you detailed would be hard to achieve on 1 income if you had young children and a stay at home Mom to take care of them to avoid the daycare/aftercare costs.
I found utopia! All of what I detailed is what our life style has been in Southern California. Our kids are out of college with no student loans and have started their careers. We're selling our house in Brentwood (too big for us now) and moving to Atlantic Beach, FL.
I found utopia! All of what I detailed is what our life style has been in Southern California. Our kids are out of college with no student loans and have started their careers. We're selling our house in Brentwood (too big for us now) and moving to Atlantic Beach, FL.
Atlantic Beach, near Jax never been there but been through Jax a few times, it's a totally different vibe then SoFla, Jax is very "Southern", SoFla is further South but the Southern vibe does not exist, much comes with that vibe if you know what I'm saying? I lived in the real south prior, so I know what it is, if you are a native Californian who never lived anyplace else you won't get what I'm talking about.
Jax has a lower COL, than SoFla, so it's not one in the same as my former home with respect to lifestyle or anything else. It also get's colder there in the Winter. Well hope you enjoy it and drive down to SoFla sometime, to see what I mean, mainly between October to late April.
Also prepare yourself for Hurricanes, Jax is not devoid of them. It's been 11 years since the last one hit, we went through several during our time in FL, Wilma was a CAT 3 and it was a bad one, I would not want to feel a CAT 5 direct hit like Andrew in 1992. Just like the big one, it's going to happen sooner or later.
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