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Old 04-17-2016, 10:06 PM
 
225 posts, read 339,441 times
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Having lived in the city and metro area my whole life here it is.

First the weather, I have traveled all over the world, the upper midwest and northeast will always have cold winters and hot summers. Sometimes they will be extreme(like the last 2 winters with the polar vortex), while the year(outside of last week) has been the mildest winter with the least snow in ages. Temps were in the 80s today and plan to be in the 70s the rest of the week. Some like the 4 seasons, others don't. Always been this way.

Chicago has changed since I was a kid from a big time city that was more blue collar to a big time city that is more white collar. Downtown Chicago has never been more alive when you look at it is a whole. Yes that Great street was more hoping back in the 50s, but my God, think of 1990 Chicago and today? You now have Millennium Park, the Riverwalk, Maggie Daley Park, Navy Pier, Streeterville was nothing, look at River North, Mich Ave has never been better, all the new architecture in the last 16 years.

It is America's cleanest urban city downtown with every attraction(shed, planetarium, Art Institute, Field) beaches in the summer, cycling/Running, shopping, theatre district, restaurants, clubs. Downtown Chicago can match up with any downtown in the world. I am not saying it is better or bigger, but it is pretty remarkable and without a doubt America's second city to NYC and t me that is a compliment. NYC is amazing, not as clean as Chicago, but simple our country's capital city.


Now what is real? The Pension crisis and what has become of the south and west sides of the city. Improvement has been made on the near west side by the UC, but go further west and you got extremely impoverished area, empty ex factories, crime, empty lots. Same goes on a bigger scale on the south side.

So in a nutshell, Chicago and Illinois does have it's problems, downtown Chicago has never been better
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,657 posts, read 4,612,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Detroit's unemployment rate is lower because so much of his populace is no longer seeking work and not considered part of the workforce.
No different from the rest of America. Lol you act like your dropping some new knowledge only exclusive to Detroit. The same rules apply to the rest of the country.

You sound like your trying to insinuate that most people just gave up on finding jobs in Detroit and dropped out of the workforce thus driving the unemployment rate down. Well here's a few ways we could track this one

1. The Detroit area would still be declining overall. In reality, the latest census estimates has the region growing in population. Property values even in the city has gone up. And there are a lot more jobs hiring people than laying people off. And of course more and more things are getting built and businesses being opened.

2. The poverty rate would be well above national average. I totaled Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Livingston, and Washtenaw county poverty rates and the region's average came out to 12.58% of Detroit's population living below the poverty line.

The national average is 15.1%. Now seeing that Detroit's unemployment rate is 0.03% above national average, but has a poverty rate 2.52% below national average, it seems to me that not only is Detroit creating jobs but creating decent paying jobs at that.

3. Even if that were true, the unemployment rate would have never dropped by over 10% in just 7 years, especially since the census estimates show the region slowly growing in population, the unemployment rate would have stayed about the same or rose from the added population and no jobs.

Detroit has a slight population increase, a much lower unemployment rate, and a lower poverty rate which means that your theory that people just dropped out of the workforce doesn't quite add up.

For the OP: I personally think Chicago will be fine when it's all said and done as long as it keeps on attracting the young professionals and the like who live in places like downtown and much of the northside. As long as the problems that plague the south and westsides don't spread to the good neighborhoods and cause alot of Chicago's tax base to flee. But the city needs to get their government in order as well, that's another huge problem.
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Old 04-18-2016, 05:45 AM
 
7,747 posts, read 4,598,217 times
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The only people who count for employment statistics are adults who are working or actively seeking work. It excludes retirees in the disabled. The most recent year for which I can find statistics is 2013, but Detroit had 52% workforce participation, meaning nearly half Detroit adults were neither working nor looking for work.
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:27 AM
 
11,187 posts, read 22,411,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NowInWI View Post
Chicago's Black Population Dwindles, Census Numbers Show

This is one explanation....181,000 fewer blacks out of a 200,000 population loss. Also, Chicago is the top city for corporate relocation, and Chicago leads the country in largest influx of downtown residents. I have links, if you must.
The 2010 to 2014 census numbers look like that trend is keeping up in the city.

Hispanic: +38,000
Asian: +15,000
White: +13,000
Mixed: +10,000
Black: -53,000

It's a very fractured city. The downtown is totally booming right now with over 40 highrises under construction and more jobs downtown than ever before. Construction all over the north side as well with new TOD apartments and many condos being built.

The south and west sides though...
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,657 posts, read 4,612,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
The only people who count for employment statistics are adults who are working or actively seeking work. It excludes retirees in the disabled. The most recent year for which I can find statistics is 2013, but Detroit had 52% workforce participation, meaning nearly half Detroit adults were neither working nor looking for work.
No. If that was the case the entire US would only have 63% of it's adults working.

There are 2.7 million (rounded) people between the ages of 20-70 total. That's 62.79% of Detroit. 52% is 2.2 million which means there are roughly about 500,000 (mostly working age adults) not in the workforce so about 22% of total adults in that age group. Now you can take away from that figure and add up the people out of that group not able to work, in college, or retired and it probably isn't much higher than 15%. If I have time I'll finish replying to you when I get home from work.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:43 PM
 
3,974 posts, read 3,508,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
The only people who count for employment statistics are adults who are working or actively seeking work. It excludes retirees in the disabled. The most recent year for which I can find statistics is 2013, but Detroit had 52% workforce participation, meaning nearly half Detroit adults were neither working nor looking for work.
You are exhibiting a lack of understanding for the U6 unemployment metric. The workforce participation metric is similar across the board. I can find no evidence that it's higher in the Detroit area compared to the rest of the country. Please site your data sources, and include them for the Chicago area as well, or stop spreading misleading information to advance your narrative.
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Old 04-19-2016, 04:00 PM
 
7,747 posts, read 4,598,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
You are exhibiting a lack of understanding for the U6 unemployment metric. The workforce participation metric is similar across the board. I can find no evidence that it's higher in the Detroit area compared to the rest of the country. Please site your data sources, and include them for the Chicago area as well, or stop spreading misleading information to advance your narrative.
No, I'm not referring to the U6 metric at all. As I'm at my kids soccer practice, I will not be citing source right now, but I'll provide one later.

Edit. This is old info, but it gives a truer picture of local employment
http://www.bls.gov/opub/gp/pdf/gp11_27.pdf

http://www.bls.gov/opub/gp/pdf/gp14_27.pdf

Leaving MSA, and focusing on city, proper

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...abor/28545571/

Last edited by gladhands; 04-19-2016 at 04:16 PM..
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Old 04-19-2016, 04:17 PM
 
11,187 posts, read 22,411,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
No. If that was the case the entire US would only have 63% of it's adults working.

There are 2.7 million (rounded) people between the ages of 20-70 total. That's 62.79% of Detroit. 52% is 2.2 million which means there are roughly about 500,000 (mostly working age adults) not in the workforce so about 22% of total adults in that age group. Now you can take away from that figure and add up the people out of that group not able to work, in college, or retired and it probably isn't much higher than 15%. If I have time I'll finish replying to you when I get home from work.
Actually your 63.0% is exactly right as the percent of the USA's labor force that's currently working.

Detroit has around 53% of people in the labor force.

Detroit's labor force (people looking for or working) which the unemployment rate is calculated off of is at around 2,000,000 people, at a low point from it's all-time high around 15 years ago of 2,300,000. Chicago's labor force is right near an all-time high.

Detroit IS doing good right now, and I'm very happy for them! My husband's family is from the Detroit area and we go there all the time, I love the metro despite what people say.

That said, you can definitely tell a difference between the two metro areas, Detroit has the lasting effects of being down and out for quite some time.

Just looking at the number of jobs in the metros, Detroit has risen by a healthy clip lately, but it suffered for years from 2000 to 2015 while most everyone else (like Chicago) at least recovered from the 2001 recession by 2007.

Detroit Jobs:
1990: 1,928,505
2000: 2,222,636 +294,131
2007: 2,005,476 -217,160
2010: 1,755,900 -249,576
2016: 1,917,392 +161,492

Chicago Jobs:
1990: 4,000,243
2000: 4,545,077 +544,834
2007: 4,586,000 +40,923
2010: 4,288,160 -297,840
2016: 4,615,459 +327,299

Jobs Change From Previous Peak:

Detroit: -305,244
Chicago: +29,459

Jobs over 25 year period:

Detroit: -11,113
Chicago: +615,216

Chicago is having a rough patch now for sure, and Detroit is doing good, but looking at trends over just a few years. The Detroit area has had a lot more "wear" on its health and economy over the past few decades while Chicago is having troubles now, but that's coming off being quite healthy directly before. It's got good bones to make a recovery.

Last edited by Chicago60614; 04-19-2016 at 04:25 PM..
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,657 posts, read 4,612,654 times
Reputation: 2573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
Actually your 63.0% is exactly right as the percent of the USA's labor force that's currently working.

Detroit has around 53% of people in the labor force.

Detroit's labor force (people looking for or working) which the unemployment rate is calculated off of is at around 2,000,000 people, at a low point from it's all-time high around 15 years ago of 2,300,000. Chicago's labor force is right near an all-time high.

Detroit IS doing good right now, and I'm very happy for them! My husband's family is from the Detroit area and we go there all the time, I love the metro despite what people say.

That said, you can definitely tell a difference between the two metro areas, Detroit has the lasting effects of being down and out for quite some time.

Just looking at the number of jobs in the metros, Detroit has risen by a healthy clip lately, but it suffered for years from 2000 to 2015 while most everyone else (like Chicago) at least recovered from the 2001 recession by 2007.

Detroit Jobs:
1990: 1,928,505
2000: 2,222,636 +294,131
2007: 2,005,476 -217,160
2010: 1,755,900 -249,576
2016: 1,917,392 +161,492

Chicago Jobs:
1990: 4,000,243
2000: 4,545,077 +544,834
2007: 4,586,000 +40,923
2010: 4,288,160 -297,840
2016: 4,615,459 +327,299

Jobs Change From Previous Peak:

Detroit: -305,244
Chicago: +29,459

Jobs over 25 year period:

Detroit: -11,113
Chicago: +615,216

Chicago is having a rough patch now for sure, and Detroit is doing good, but looking at trends over just a few years. The Detroit area has had a lot more "wear" on its health and economy over the past few decades while Chicago is having troubles now, but that's coming off being quite healthy directly before. It's got good bones to make a recovery.
Thanks for those numbers. That's what I didn't have time to find earlier that shows Detroit is actually adding on jobs. But yeah Detroit's recession started a bit earlier than most other cities so MI got hit HARD. We just have to keep this trend positive. Outside of the city the suburbs seem more or less "suburban America" to me, especially in the outer ring burbs. I don't really see a huge difference outside of the terrible Michigan roads. Everything is still kept up with the exception of a few suburbs. Anyway this thread got kind of off topic but I think Chicago is still doing fine overall. Ups and downs are part of the cycle of a major city, it doesn't make Chicago any less of a great city. Hell, even NYC had some very rough times.

Last edited by MS313; 04-20-2016 at 12:33 AM..
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:31 AM
 
11,187 posts, read 22,411,839 times
Reputation: 10943
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
Thanks for those numbers. That's what I didn't have time to find earlier that shows Detroit is actually adding on jobs. But yeah Detroit's recession started a bit earlier than most other cities so MI got hit HARD. We just have to keep this trend positive. Outside of the city the suburbs seem more or less "suburban America" to me, especially in the outer ring burbs. I don't really see a huge difference outside of the terrible Michigan roads. Everything is still kept up with the exception of a few suburbs. Anyway this thread got kind of off topic but I think Chicago is still doing fine overall. Ups and downs are part of the cycle of a major city, it doesn't make Chicago any less of a great city. Hell, even NYC had some very rough times.
Yeah, Detroit's issue is that it gained jobs like everyone else from 1990 to 2000, then lost jobs for a few years during that recession like everyone else, BUT when everyone else gained jobs from 2002 to 2008 Detroit still bled out another few hundred thousand. Then it lost ANOTHER 250,000 jobs from 2008 through 2010.

So it really missed out on a whole decade losing jobs. I think that's what put it at such a low point in 2010.

That said though, it's gained nearly 160,000 jobs the past few years, and while it has a lot of ground to make up for, at least it's finally turned the corner after over a decade of sliding.

You can tell going there now compared to five years ago that things are much better and more stable in the metro area. The city is still not coming back except for areas downtown and up Woodward, but the suburbs are at least back on the right track and it feels much more optimistic.
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