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Old 04-09-2016, 04:06 PM
 
448 posts, read 391,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
A few potential reasons I can think of:

1) New Mexico's larger, more prominent cities such as Albuquerque and Santa Fe are significantly colder than Phoenix, Tucson and Vegas in the wintertime, so you're going to have fewer transplants from Southern California and cold-weather refugees from the Midwest and East Coast. In-migration from these regions is what largely drives population growth in much of Arizona, southern Nevada and southwestern Utah. Most of these domestic migrants are either over dealing with cold, snow and ice or, in the case of transplants from CA, are apprehensive to dealing with it because they've never dealt with it previously.

2) New Mexico has always had very large Hispanic/Latino and Native American populations, even relative to nearby Southwestern states such as Arizona and Texas. I think that for many transplants from regions of the country where the Latino/Hispanic and Native American populations have historically been very low such as the Upper Midwest, New England, Appalachia and the northern Intermountain West (i.e., ID, MT, WY), for example, that's somewhat of a deterrent. The demographics of cities such as Phoenix, Denver and even SLC with all of it's Mormons, would probably be less disconcerting for most domestic migrants from outside of CA, TX and the Southwest.

3) Overall, New Mexico is a very poor state. This is apparent driving through just about any urban, suburban or rural area in the state. IMO, it appears to be more poverty-stricken than neighboring states, and in the Southwest, that's saying a lot. The level of poverty in NM seems to be more on par with states like AL, MS and LA than AZ, CO or UT. A lot of this, I'm sure, is due to cultural reasons. Again, Hispanic/Latino and Native American people are statistically much poorer and less educated than white, Asian and even black Americans. Higher rates of poverty lead to lower educational attainment levels, increased crime rates and gang membership, more government entitlements and a greater sense of hopelessness and despair.

4) New Mexico is kind of odd when it comes to politics, as it doesn't really fit into a box from a political standpoint. It's not conservative like TX or UT, libertarian like AZ or progressive like CO. In this era of political polarization in the US, it's important for people when moving to a new state to select one where they feel as though their state and local government and fellow citizens share similar values and uphold their best interests.

That's my $0.02.
Very well said......you may be on to something. Never really thought of it all like that.
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Old 04-09-2016, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Naples Island
1,016 posts, read 644,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
One big difference I see between NM and AZ, though, is the climate of their major cities. Both Albuquerque and Santa Fe regularly see snow every winter. There are a lot of snowbirds moving to places like Phoenix and Tucson to escape the snow. It would be pointless to relocate to NM and be in snow again. Flagstaff gets snow, but it's not exactly "booming" like Phoenix. Also, ASU and UA are pretty good universities. I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but lots of people from CA go there for college and some end up staying. Phoenix is a big airport too.
I agree that the cold, extremely snowy winters of Flagstaff is one of the primary reasons why it never boomed in the same regard as Phoenix or Tucson, and I think the same logic can be applied to Albuquerque, Santa Fe and other cities in New Mexico.

However, the Southwest, including places like that Phoenix and Tucson, are not really places you move to if you want to avoid cold weather all together.

Sure, winters in the lower elevation areas of the Southwest are mild, but they're not really "warm" in the same regard as winters in Florida or even coastal Southern California.

I moved to Arizona from Florida, and overall, that was a very difficult transition from a climatic standpoint. Not only was I going from one extreme to another in terms of humidity and moisture, I wasn't prepared for just how cold the desert gets and stays for several months in the wintertime.

Even though daytime high temperatures can be climb upwards to 70F in mid-winter, it's usually in the 50's and low 60's for much of the day. That, plus the temperature drops like a rock once the sun sets from about mid-November to mid-March.

FWIW, I regularly wore beanies and gloves on my 5:00 AM runs from about December 1st - March 1st while living in Arizona. I never had to do that in Florida.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't think the Southwest offers very much in the way of nice weather. It's very, very hot in the summertime and, although it's not cold in the same regard as the Upper Midwest, it still gets cold. IMO, winters in the Southwest, especially in the higher elevation areas such as Albuquerque, offer little respite for the long, hot summers.

Finally, speaking to another point in your post - IME, the ASU and UA graduates who remain in Phoenix and Tucson, respectively, are often from the Pacific Northwest or small towns in the Midwest. Everyone else, including graduates from California, Texas and the East Coast tend to either move back to where they came from or to someplace new entirely. Almost no one who grows up in Arizona remains in Arizona after graduating from ASU or UA, either.
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:23 PM
 
6,984 posts, read 14,112,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibbidy View Post
Yes... I can understand that being one of the reasons to choose AZ over NM but Colorado is seeing a lot of growth and is even colder than New Mexico cities.
Yeah that's why I left Colorado off my post. I have no answer for that besides the hype maybe. But a lot of people I know from CA that moved there were the ones into mountain activities, not the ones into the beach activities. They enjoy the summer hiking and winter snowboarding in CA, but could live in a cheaper big liberal city in Denver. NM wouldn't attract the Californians into snowboarding and such. A lot of Denver's growth is from Californians. The growth of AZ from Californians is those attracted to Phoenix for the suburban housing they can afford, similar demographics, and warmer weather. Most Southern Californians, if forced to choose between Denver's snow and Phoenix's summer heat, would probably take Phoenix's heat if they were weighing those two as options. The snowbirds of the Midwest have added to the Phoenix boom, not Denver's. That's the best I can come up with.

On top of that, there are a lot of long-time California transplants moving to Colorado. The ones who came over during California's late 20th Century boom from the plains and midwest. The older generations. A lot of them are moving to Colorado that I know of. They come from places where snow was a common occurrence and would be able to handle it again. They're generally more liberal also so Denver's politics are more in tune with their views than Phoenix and Arizona.

Also, it might have something to do with similar demographics congregating together. Ethnic communities exist all over the country and they continue to grow as more immigrants arrive to the US. It could be something similar. Maybe a wave of transplants will show up to NM one day, but a few need to pave the path. The path has long been paved between CA and AZ. The trend of Californians moving to Denver picked up quickly in the past few years because some friends and family went to visit, liked it, and joined their friends/family. That's how cities like LA grew with people from the midwest and northeast in the 20th Century. My mom visited a friend in LA that she knew from NY. She loved it and moved. My aunt and her best friend flew to visit my mom and they joined too. A lot of people from NY continued to follow as they already knew people out in LA and had connections. Not many people from other parts of the country have connections to NM since, as noted, its demographics are much different. Longtime residents of Native American and Mexican descent and not much immigration to the state. That path hasn't been paved (yet).
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Old 04-09-2016, 06:30 PM
 
5,837 posts, read 10,798,108 times
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I think New Mexico has a lot going for it though.

I think New Mexico does have a lot of educated, progressive, and affluent people that probably subscribe to the idea that "growth for the sake of growth" is the ideology of the cancer cell."

Did you know Santa Fe is THIRD, THIRD in art sales after New York and LA??

Then you have a place like Los Alamos which has more millionaires per capita than just about anywhere else because of the educated people that move there?

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/new...d1cd7a2f3.html
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Old 04-09-2016, 06:33 PM
 
5,837 posts, read 10,798,108 times
Reputation: 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
I agree that the cold, extremely snowy winters of Flagstaff is one of the primary reasons why it never boomed in the same regard as Phoenix or Tucson, and I think the same logic can be applied to Albuquerque, Santa Fe and other cities in New Mexico.

However, the Southwest, including places like that Phoenix and Tucson, are not really places you move to if you want to avoid cold weather all together.

Sure, winters in the lower elevation areas of the Southwest are mild, but they're not really "warm" in the same regard as winters in Florida or even coastal Southern California.

I moved to Arizona from Florida, and overall, that was a very difficult transition from a climatic standpoint. Not only was I going from one extreme to another in terms of humidity and moisture, I wasn't prepared for just how cold the desert gets and stays for several months in the wintertime.

Even though daytime high temperatures can be climb upwards to 70F in mid-winter, it's usually in the 50's and low 60's for much of the day. That, plus the temperature drops like a rock once the sun sets from about mid-November to mid-March.

FWIW, I regularly wore beanies and gloves on my 5:00 AM runs from about December 1st - March 1st while living in Arizona. I never had to do that in Florida.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't think the Southwest offers very much in the way of nice weather. It's very, very hot in the summertime and, although it's not cold in the same regard as the Upper Midwest, it still gets cold. IMO, winters in the Southwest, especially in the higher elevation areas such as Albuquerque, offer little respite for the long, hot summers.

Finally, speaking to another point in your post - IME, the ASU and UA graduates who remain in Phoenix and Tucson, respectively, are often from the Pacific Northwest or small towns in the Midwest. Everyone else, including graduates from California, Texas and the East Coast tend to either move back to where they came from or to someplace new entirely. Almost no one who grows up in Arizona remains in Arizona after graduating from ASU or UA, either.
Same as Southern California winter. No different. South Florida is different however, that is more of a truly tropical climate.
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Old 04-10-2016, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,447 posts, read 11,948,134 times
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I think people are overthinking this.

Most people, unless they're retirees or people who can work remotely, do not move solely for climate. Yes, a lot of people move to the Sun Belt in general, and many of them are working age. But the primary things which cause people to migrate across regions are job availability and a good wage to cost of living ratio. If this wasn't the case, Hawaii would have 50 million people, and North Dakota wouldn't have seen an oil boom in the last decade.

New Mexico is a low-growth state because it isn't a state with high job growth. Plenty of people love to visit New Mexico - particularly the Taos/Santa Fe area, but cannot afford to move there because they have no job opportunities.
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:18 AM
 
56,737 posts, read 81,061,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
I think New Mexico has a lot going for it though.

I think New Mexico does have a lot of educated, progressive, and affluent people that probably subscribe to the idea that "growth for the sake of growth" is the ideology of the cancer cell."

Did you know Santa Fe is THIRD, THIRD in art sales after New York and LA??

Then you have a place like Los Alamos which has more millionaires per capita than just about anywhere else because of the educated people that move there?

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/new...d1cd7a2f3.html
Yes, the Los Alamos area has the highest median household in the country at $105,989(2010-2014 census information). It is the only metro/micro area with a six figure median household income in the US.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
5,656 posts, read 7,459,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I think people are overthinking this.

Most people, unless they're retirees or people who can work remotely, do not move solely for climate. Yes, a lot of people move to the Sun Belt in general, and many of them are working age. But the primary things which cause people to migrate across regions are job availability and a good wage to cost of living ratio. If this wasn't the case, Hawaii would have 50 million people, and North Dakota wouldn't have seen an oil boom in the last decade.

New Mexico is a low-growth state because it isn't a state with high job growth. Plenty of people love to visit New Mexico - particularly the Taos/Santa Fe area, but cannot afford to move there because they have no job opportunities.
This. I think this is the same reason that Tucson has not grown at the same level as Phoenix.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:09 AM
 
Location: 3219'03.7"N 10643'55.9"W
8,115 posts, read 17,340,828 times
Reputation: 7287
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Yes, the Los Alamos area has the highest median household in the country at $105,989(2010-2014 census information). It is the only metro/micro area with a six figure median household income in the US.
With that said, it does not offer much to younger, 20 somethings out of college, because there is relatively little to do, and its isolation. Only 12,000 people live there, and it is about 40 miles to Santa Fe. Appeal to good jobs is one of the reasons there is population growth in Colorado and Arizona, and Utah to a great extent (SLC metro). If Albuquerque had the same type of good job opportunities as Los Alamos does, you would see a potential for Albuquerque to flourish and grow population, in good way, like Denver, Phoenix or Salt Lake City. Besides Sandia, the only prominent employer that I know of is Intel in Rio Rancho. Rio Rancho has grown faster than almost any other city in the state, and that is not a coincidence.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:10 AM
BMI
 
Location: Ontario
7,266 posts, read 4,516,669 times
Reputation: 5631
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I think people are overthinking this.

Most people, unless they're retirees or people who can work remotely, do not move solely for climate. Yes, a lot of people move to the Sun Belt in general, and many of them are working age. But the primary things which cause people to migrate across regions are job availability and a good wage to cost of living ratio. If this wasn't the case, Hawaii would have 50 million people, and North Dakota wouldn't have seen an oil boom in the last decade.

New Mexico is a low-growth state because it isn't a state with high job growth. Plenty of people love to visit New Mexico - particularly the Taos/Santa Fe area, but cannot afford to move there because they have no job opportunities.

I agree. People are over thinking this for sure.


I like comparing Utah to New Mexico...they used to be neck and neck in population.


Utah over the last 20 years has pulled way ahead.


Nobody is going to tell me it's because Utah climate is better.


ABQ's climate superior to SLC in every way.


Sure Utah has a mini sunbelt at SW corner St George area (booming like crazy),
but southern NM is easily just as good. I'll take Las Cruces, NM over St. George, UT anyday.


Some of it is marketing ...AZ has done a great job over the past 50 years
selling itself ...."Valley of the Sun" and all that BS.


Colorado is not better climatically to NM either....and don't get me started on
Texas heat and humidity.....


Bottomline ...people go where the jobs are ...and NM ain't it.


Good in a way...keeps it nice and not overcrowded.
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