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Old 04-10-2016, 08:37 AM
 
Location: 3219'03.7"N 10643'55.9"W
8,121 posts, read 17,355,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
A few potential reasons I can think of:

1) New Mexico's larger, more prominent cities such as Albuquerque and Santa Fe are significantly colder than Phoenix, Tucson and Vegas in the wintertime, so you're going to have fewer transplants from Southern California and cold-weather refugees from the Midwest and East Coast. In-migration from these regions is what largely drives population growth in much of Arizona, southern Nevada and southwestern Utah. Most of these domestic migrants are either over dealing with cold, snow and ice or, in the case of transplants from CA, are apprehensive to dealing with it because they've never dealt with it previously.

2) New Mexico has always had very large Hispanic/Latino and Native American populations, even relative to nearby Southwestern states such as Arizona and Texas. I think that for many transplants from regions of the country where the Latino/Hispanic and Native American populations have historically been very low such as the Upper Midwest, New England, Appalachia and the northern Intermountain West (i.e., ID, MT, WY), for example, that's somewhat of a deterrent. The demographics of cities such as Phoenix, Denver and even SLC with all of it's Mormons, would probably be less disconcerting for most domestic migrants from outside of CA, TX and the Southwest.

3) Overall, New Mexico is a very poor state. This is apparent driving through just about any urban, suburban or rural area in the state. IMO, it appears to be more poverty-stricken than neighboring states, and in the Southwest, that's saying a lot. The level of poverty in NM seems to be more on par with states like AL, MS and LA than AZ, CO or UT. A lot of this, I'm sure, is due to cultural reasons. Again, Hispanic/Latino and Native American people are statistically much poorer and less educated than white, Asian and even black Americans. Higher rates of poverty lead to lower educational attainment levels, increased crime rates and gang membership, more government entitlements and a greater sense of hopelessness and despair.

4) New Mexico is kind of odd when it comes to politics, as it doesn't really fit into a box from a political standpoint. It's not conservative like TX or UT, libertarian like AZ or progressive like CO. In this era of political polarization in the US, it's important for people when moving to a new state to select one where they feel as though their state and local government and fellow citizens share similar values and uphold their best interests.

That's my $0.02.
Especially #3. However, I will say rural Arizona, in places, looks every bit as much in despair as rural New Mexico.

When it comes to rural New Mexico, there are few places I have seen in this country (I have been to 49 states, haven't gotten Alaska yet) that rival it for hardscrabble poverty. Urban poverty here is actually not nearly as threatening as some inner cores of older northeastern and Midwestern cities. Rural poverty here is an entirely different beast. Smaller towns, settlements of under 10,000, are what would astound many coming from out of state. Places like Vaughn, Vado, Anthony, Lordsburg, Espanola, Hatch. I was in a small settlement a couple of miles south of Hatch a couple of weeks ago. If many of you were to be blindfolded and it taken off, you could barely distinguish this neighborhood from an impoverished village in Mexico.

There is something intangible one cannot put their finger on, for instance, when they leave Durango or Cortez and head for Aztec or Shiprock. You cross that border and you can almost instantly feel things begin to fall off. I simply can't put my finger on it.

A good example of a town, in my estimation, that would serve as a great tourist destination is Silver City. Even the name of the town is enchanting. The downtown, in areas, possesses beautiful Victorian architecture. In many respects, one can liken it in a way to Bisbee Arizona. Bisbee is a great example of a town elegantly transforming from a company town, (Phelps Dodge) to a tourist and settlement magnet, utilizing the mine tour as its centerpiece. The restaurants and shops followed. Contrast Silver City to Bisbee. If you were to utilize Google Maps Street View, you might be able to make out some similarities. However, sad to say, Silver City is a depressed town, and looks every bit of it downtown. It doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be. It is the largest settlement in proximity to the Gila Wilderness. It should flourish as a place where vacationers make their anchor in the summer. Instead, it languishes. There are 5 active gangs in the city. The overall crime rate is over twice the national average, the burglary rate is twice the national average, and the assault rate is 5 times the national average.

Las Cruces is my home, and I do feel fortunate that I live here. I do not hate NM! However, there are clear and present reasons why the state languishes. Lack of family planning, educational attainment, brain drain due to lack of good paying jobs in the private sector (minus some oil opportunities in the eastern part of the state and Intel) have created an atmosphere that does not look and feel like many of the states bordering New Mexico mentioned in this thread. I can only hope that turns around. Unless people that live here adapt to the concept of capitalism, however, it's not going to happen.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:47 AM
 
5,837 posts, read 10,811,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I think people are overthinking this.

Most people, unless they're retirees or people who can work remotely, do not move solely for climate. Yes, a lot of people move to the Sun Belt in general, and many of them are working age. But the primary things which cause people to migrate across regions are job availability and a good wage to cost of living ratio. If this wasn't the case, Hawaii would have 50 million people, and North Dakota wouldn't have seen an oil boom in the last decade.

New Mexico is a low-growth state because it isn't a state with high job growth. Plenty of people love to visit New Mexico - particularly the Taos/Santa Fe area, but cannot afford to move there because they have no job opportunities.
No. People are not overthinking this. Stating that it isn't a state with high job growth. I think most people assume that its not a high job growth state. They are asking WHY.

And climate, in an indirect way DOES lead to economic growth. A metro area like Phoenix IS triggered by a boom in retirees, and it boomed in retirees BECAUSE its mild winter desert climate.

Obviously thats not the only reason, but I think people are looking for an answer as to WHY its not high job growth.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:36 AM
BMI
 
Location: Ontario
7,269 posts, read 4,534,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
No. People are not overthinking this. Stating that it isn't a state with high job growth. I think most people assume that its not a high job growth state. They are asking WHY.

And climate, in an indirect way DOES lead to economic growth. A metro area like Phoenix IS triggered by a boom in retirees, and it boomed in retirees BECAUSE its mild winter desert climate.

Obviously thats not the only reason, but I think people are looking for an answer as to WHY its not high job growth.
If that is true then why is Tucson languishing?


Tucson is only growing at a slightly faster rate than Albuquerque.


Phoenix area is booming, personally I don't know why, you couldn't pay me live there,
there are 4 to months of very brutal 100F plus temps, even the lows are too warm.


When you look at the smaller cities/towns in AZ they are almost as run down as NM towns,
places like Safford, Douglas, Winslow, Clifton, etc, aren't exactly too appealing.


It's mainly the greater Phoenix area that is the mover and shaker in AZ.


In fact I prefer some NM places to those, though NM has it's share....
for example: Lordsburg is shockingly run down, yikes!


True, lower elevation AZ desert areas offer winter temps 5 to 10 degrees warmer than
anything NM has, but that would even more true as compared to Utah and Colorado.
Also there is a significant trade off....super hot triple digit temperature summers.
NM generally is more pleasant year round, no place in NM averages over 100F in summer.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
2,709 posts, read 2,372,048 times
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I think part of the problem is how the local government is ran in NM. They don't promote pro-growth, pro-business, don't have mindset to attract businesses here. Secondly, NM has a largely, Hispanic, Native American population that lived in NM before it was considered a state that were poor. NM needs an outsider to shake up the status quo of the state, and mimic Colorado, Utah and Arizona when it comes to growing population, getting Fortune 500 companies, and start up small businesses.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Las Cruces NM
87 posts, read 62,446 times
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Not being provincial, I may have it -
Apathy and small-thinking are often valued in NM; ambition and can-do are often not valued. Sometimes the last 2 are harshly opposed in NM by those threatened, or have too-good of a thing going. Ambition and can-do are more valued in those other states. All of the above informs any gov't; few escape by thinking for themselves, or by being lucky and in the right field.

Berry or Martinez - hardly the problem, but maybe extreme partisanship is? Many more are in gov't ruining it with stinkin'-thinkin', than those 2 who may be exceptions.

Climate - ha! I'm not sure anyone has told me Phoenix or Tucson have better overall climates than major NM towns, without the means for summer homes much higher in elevation. Many tell me ABQ has the perfect climate and a few hardly a real winter, unless So Cal or Fla are the yardsticks...others preferring it cooler say Ruidoso or Santa Fe are perfect, those preferring it warmer say where I am is perfect.

Last edited by nmdesert; 04-10-2016 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 04-10-2016, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
2,709 posts, read 2,372,048 times
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If NM was similar to CO when it comes to jobs, education, businesses and economy, I'd probably move down there for the weather alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmdesert View Post
Not being provincial, I may have it -
Apathy and small-thinking are often valued in NM; ambition and can-do are often not valued. Sometimes the last 2 are violently opposed in NM by those threatened, or have too-good of a thing going. Ambition and can-do are more valued in those other states. All of the above informs any gov't; few escape by thinking for themselves, or by being lucky and in the right field.


Berry or Martinez - hardly the problem, but maybe extreme partisanship is? Many more are in gov't ruining it with stinkin'-thinkin', than those 2 who may be exceptions.

Climate - ha! I'm not sure anyone has told me Phoenix or Tucson have better overall climates than major NM towns, unless they have the means for summer homes much higher in elevation. Many tell me ABQ has the perfect climate and a few hardly a real winter, unless So Cal or Fla are the yardsticks...others preferring it cooler say Ruidoso or Santa Fe are perfect climates, those preferring it warmer say where I am is a perfect climate.
That's why they'll always be a poor state similar to the south, NM needs to change and be like CO. NM is ripe for growth, is a fairly big state, plenty of open land, but the people running the state don't know what they're doing.
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Old 04-10-2016, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,476 posts, read 11,975,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMI View Post
I like comparing Utah to New Mexico...they used to be neck and neck in population.

Utah over the last 20 years has pulled way ahead.
Utah is it's own beast. Domestic migration into Utah, while positive, isn't all that great from what I remember. Its population growth is driven by the highest birth rate in the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
No. People are not overthinking this. Stating that it isn't a state with high job growth. I think most people assume that its not a high job growth state. They are asking WHY.

And climate, in an indirect way DOES lead to economic growth. A metro area like Phoenix IS triggered by a boom in retirees, and it boomed in retirees BECAUSE its mild winter desert climate.

Obviously thats not the only reason, but I think people are looking for an answer as to WHY its not high job growth.
Obviously retirees can cause some job growth, particularly in the service and healthcare sectors. But my point was people shouldn't be overthinking the minutia of climate here, because climate is only weakly correlated with economic and job growth. There certainly may be some idiosyncratic reasons why the Phoenix area grew like gangbusters and New Mexico languished. But it's not because Phoenix is marginally warmer than Albuquerque.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
4,552 posts, read 3,665,912 times
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I was about to go into a lengthy post on why Phoenix has always boomed but not Tucson. Instead, I'll pass, because it was overwhelmingly negative.

Arizona has a dark history, and I'll leave it at that. Arizona's dark history is what prevents it from looking more like New Mexico to be frank. Outside of the lack of snow... But Las Cruces doesn't snow either, yes?

Hint: It has something to do with Arizona's political history.
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:44 AM
 
448 posts, read 392,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D View Post
I was about to go into a lengthy post on why Phoenix has always boomed but not Tucson. Instead, I'll pass, because it was overwhelmingly negative.

Arizona has a dark history, and I'll leave it at that. Arizona's dark history is what prevents it from looking more like New Mexico to be frank. Outside of the lack of snow... But Las Cruces doesn't snow either, yes?

Hint: It has something to do with Arizona's political history.
Yes Las Cruces gets snow....maybe like an inch a year. It's very little though. But not sure if it snows every year or every other year.
Anyways I'm interested in hearing about the AZ past you speak of
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:25 PM
 
5,837 posts, read 10,811,409 times
Reputation: 4432
Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D View Post
I was about to go into a lengthy post on why Phoenix has always boomed but not Tucson. Instead, I'll pass, because it was overwhelmingly negative.

Arizona has a dark history, and I'll leave it at that. Arizona's dark history is what prevents it from looking more like New Mexico to be frank. Outside of the lack of snow... But Las Cruces doesn't snow either, yes?

Hint: It has something to do with Arizona's political history.
Its ok, you can say it. Anglo-American didn't want to settle in places already inhabited and run by hispanics. This isn't any secret. Its mainstream history.
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