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Many of our younger workers and their positions in retail and service industry have been displaced by once manufacturing employees. Has this created a sense of age discrimination in Michigan, and not just being young but older as well? Thoughts..........
Thats a good question. I always thought it was tough to get a job when I was younger (at least while I was in school), not just nowadays. Most places want you to be able to work odd hours and that is tough when you are younger and still in school and might not even have a car.
Employers might look for loyalty in their workers. Someone who is from manufacturing might have 10-20 years in easy. This might appeal to them more then some 18 year old who is in school, might not have the best work ehthic, and they know will quit once a better job comes around.
At the same time however they probably know that someone from manufacturing isn'g going to stay around long if a better job comes their way.
At my first job while still in high school the older workers got all the better shifts, better treatment, and could pretty much do what they wanted. Maybe because they knew us kids were a dime a dozen I have alway thought that I was discriminated against when I was younger.
I posted this in another post, but it was exactly what I've dealt with throughout my career. To me it seems like the baby-boomer generation will not settle, and wish to remain in the work force
Since I started in the telecom field almost 9 years ago I have constantly worked with Ma Bell retiree's and have always been the youngest one out of the pack. When I got the job I have now and while negotiating with the hiring manager he said but why should I hire you, we have all retired phone people with years and years of experience. I replied that I'm young, ambitious, and have a full life long career ahead of me.
Honestly I'd like to know (w/o sounding like a D1CK) why don't the older generation that have had their time and have reeeped the benefits of a full career give the younger generation a chance to forge a way? Personally I think the company I work for (large Arizona Utility company) will shoot themselves in the foot when they find that thier workforce is antiquated and most will retire (for good) around the same time. Instead of bringing on a younger, hungrier, more ambitious generation of workers. They seem to stick with what has worked best in the past. The average age of our employee out of 7,200 is 48 and 2/3rds of our work-force is at retirement age.
I'm interested on your thoughts on this subject. As I said I'm 31 my co-workers in the telecom dept. are 51, 54, 45, and 67. I've asked them the same thing, and most say their just trying to continue to build up their nest egg's and maintain their current lifestyle even after retirement. They ALL are either retired military, or Ma Bell collecting pensions, and benefits, from their former careers that they've retired from. I have found this trend everywhere I've been, and so far my plan is to just plain "outlive" them.....lol while continuing to study and further my career, but it's just so hard for a young person to break into the business now-a-days.
Not that I wish anyone to have problems finding work, but in a way I'm breathing a small sigh of relief. All I keep hearing is that once you're 50 it's really hard to get hired. Since I'm there in 5 years....hey, it's nice to know that someone will appreciate me, lol!
As for those retired workers, Trudawg, one big reason is benefits. Those retirees on a pension and former military people don't need employer health benefits. Same reason it seems that all the retail around me hire part-time for the most part. Many people are getting by with 2 part time jobs, but either pay for insurance out of their pocket or don't have it.
You can't blame them for worrying about their nest eggs. My dad retired and then a couple years later went back to work on a contract basis. He's 69 and healthy, but he does worry about those years when he won't be working.
Some people just enjoy working. My great aunt had a job with her county and didn't retire until she was in her early 70's. It was a hard choice because she loved her job, but she finally decided that she wanted to enjoy traveling while she still enjoyed excellent health.
It would seem that younger people should get a chance, after all, they are the ones who will most likely want to stay with a company long term and work their way up. The job market is so tight right now in most occupations that it must seem that you can't get anywhere. Remember the 90's when any warm body had a chance because there were more jobs than workers? Now it seems there are 100 applicants per position. Things will loosen up once we crawl our way through this recession.
Not that I wish anyone to have problems finding work, but in a way I'm breathing a small sigh of relief. All I keep hearing is that once you're 50 it's really hard to get hired. Since I'm there in 5 years....hey, it's nice to know that someone will appreciate me, lol!
As for those retired workers, Trudawg, one big reason is benefits. Those retirees on a pension and former military people don't need employer health benefits. Same reason it seems that all the retail around me hire part-time for the most part. Many people are getting by with 2 part time jobs, but either pay for insurance out of their pocket or don't have it.
You can't blame them for worrying about their nest eggs. My dad retired and then a couple years later went back to work on a contract basis. He's 69 and healthy, but he does worry about those years when he won't be working.
Some people just enjoy working. My great aunt had a job with her county and didn't retire until she was in her early 70's. It was a hard choice because she loved her job, but she finally decided that she wanted to enjoy traveling while she still enjoyed excellent health.
It would seem that younger people should get a chance, after all, they are the ones who will most likely want to stay with a company long term and work their way up. The job market is so tight right now in most occupations that it must seem that you can't get anywhere. Remember the 90's when any warm body had a chance because there were more jobs than workers? Now it seems there are 100 applicants per position. Things will loosen up once we crawl our way through this recession.
Jeri
I agree with you on many points you make, but as many things this is something that changes with your view, more so your age. One of the main reasons I asked this question is I have ran into a large number of people my age (late 20's) who feel as though their age is limiting not only their earning potential but if they are unemployed, getting a job in general. I lost a job of 5 years working for the state as a Network systems tech, to a older individual, who granted had more education than I but there was no basis for the replacement. I had been told my position was "eliminated". Unfortunately most of the friends I had used this as an excuse to leave the state.
I agree with you on many points you make, but as many things this is something that changes with your view, more so your age. One of the main reasons I asked this question is I have ran into a large number of people my age (late 20's) who feel as though their age is limiting not only their earning potential but if they are unemployed, getting a job in general. I lost a job of 5 years working for the state as a Network systems tech, to a older individual, who granted had more education than I but there was no basis for the replacement. I had been told my position was "eliminated". Unfortunately most of the friends I had used this as an excuse to leave the state.
This is, indeed, a very interesting topic. Skipping for a moment the thoughts about the reason older people are still working, let me throw out several examples on why employers may want to hire them.
I recently went to the store to purchase a small pack of brads. The price was $0.99. The young sales associate told me that it comes to $1.75. I told him that is not possible. He said it is the sales tax. I said that 6% of 99 cents doesn't get us to $1.75. He pointed to his calculator and said "But that's what it says".
A retired bank officer told me that very few at the bank understand the concept of compound interest. They punch things up and if the computer is down, they do not have a clue on how to calculate it.
Were you ever in a restaurant when the computer point of sale system goes down? They look you right in the face and tell you that it is impossible to serve food when the system (not the stove) is down. Writing down on paper and actually adding items and calculating a percentage sales tax is too daunting.
Call it a problem in education, or something else, but younger workers do not seem to have a "reality check" built into their system. There seems to be a lack of a grasp on fundemental concepts. That may be a part of the appeal of hiring older workers.
This is, indeed, a very interesting topic. Skipping for a moment the thoughts about the reason older people are still working, let me throw out several examples on why employers may want to hire them.
I recently went to the store to purchase a small pack of brads. The price was $0.99. The young sales associate told me that it comes to $1.75. I told him that is not possible. He said it is the sales tax. I said that 6% of 99 cents doesn't get us to $1.75. He pointed to his calculator and said "But that's what it says".
A retired bank officer told me that very few at the bank understand the concept of compound interest. They punch things up and if the computer is down, they do not have a clue on how to calculate it.
Were you ever in a restaurant when the computer point of sale system goes down? They look you right in the face and tell you that it is impossible to serve food when the system (not the stove) is down. Writing down on paper and actually adding items and calculating a percentage sales tax is too daunting.
Call it a problem in education, or something else, but younger workers do not seem to have a "reality check" built into their system. There seems to be a lack of a grasp on fundemental concepts. That may be a part of the appeal of hiring older workers.
I have had my experience with workers in the service industry like that, but I'm referring to people with advanced degrees (masters and up) who have been the target of age discrimination. I agree laziness is everywhere when you deal with workers in restaurants, retail industry, etc, they are taught to be machines to avoid waisting their superiors time. Just as you describe younger workers as having a "lack of fundamental concepts" there are many educated young adults in Michigan who have the short end of the stick. I believe what many employers want in college graduates is almost impossible to obtain. Almost like the credit industry, credit takes time and stability to build, but also takes credit to have credit. Except with many employers, they are wanting experience and education, although one is not possible without the other, you can't be qualified for the job without a degree, although lack of experience puts your resume in the shredder. I wholly agree there are many grads out there who have waisted 4 years of their life and are no more educated when they started, but I do believe Michigan has to do something to retain them. Just as many of my friends have, there is talented youth leaving this state because they feel the same way.
I wholly agree there are many grads out there who have waisted 4 years of their life and are no more educated when they started, but I do believe Michigan has to do something to retain them. Just as many of my friends have, there is talented youth leaving this state because they feel the same way.
I totally agree. I recently had a discussion with a senior person at a university who told me that Michigan just does not have the breadth of employment opportunities that are necessary to retain younger talent. This person brought up an interesting point - that often young professionals are married to other young professionals. Even if one of them can find meaningful employment in their profession, they both leave because of the lack of a spectrum of opportunities in different fields.
I get hammered a lot because I like to promote a diverse bag of economic opportunities in the state. Many people just want to believe that we will go back to the "good old days" when the state had but one major focus. I also believe that the state would do well to promote certificate programs in diverse fields for people who are not university bound or out of their original work experience and prepare them for other opportunities. The naysayers will say "What's the point? All the jobs will be outsourced anyway". I disagree.
I
The naysayers will say "What's the point? All the jobs will be outsourced anyway". I disagree.
I don't believe all the jobs will be outsourced either. Although a lot will. We are currently training young automotive engineers (mostly Chinese but some others as well). But when they return home they do not work on our projects as they have plenty to do working on local projects.
From an engineering standpoint we have an advantage over many countries. Most of the engineers I have worked with did not grow up in a technical environment. Some of them never had cars let alone fancy electronics so it can be difficult to explain engineering concepts.
But back to the age issue another reason might be labeling. Us X'ers are probably considered lazy, self centered and full of ignorance. If you are younger than that its probably worse.
I have noticed that alot of the older engineers where I work are yes men. Live and breathe for the man. work. work. work. Sorry but I have a life after 5 Not that I don't work hard but there are limits to how much unpaid overtime I am willing to take on
UpperPeninsulaRon Has a great point. It IS about people that can't even add 6% sales tax to a bill, or even make change for a dollar. It's not about laziness-it's about ABILITY. It is like asking a person who does not know what a spark plug is, to be hired on as the lead mechanic..
Just because you have the degree or papers, in NO WAY means you know what is going on..Degrees are WAY overrated. Experience counts. You get experience by sucking it up and doing the crap jobs until you learn the ropes..
Hell, I bet that 90% of recent grads CANNOT tell what time it is unless it is from a DIGITAL COLCK!!
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I have alway thought that I was discriminated against when I was younger.
Good Points
