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Old 08-11-2016, 02:41 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
-- You keep saying that, but you still don't explain why leaves change weeks sooner in mountains than lowlands even further north. Or why earlier cold snaps in fall produce earlier leaf colour or why New York City, last December, still had leaves on their trees as a result to a mild start to winter...
Temperatures can affect the intensity/vibrancy of fall colors, I am not disputing that. But is still stands that the initiation of color change in and of itself is related solely to latitude; the farther one is from the equator, the later the color changing process starts.
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Old 08-11-2016, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,732,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua View Post
Lots of NY plates in Vt in the winter. I guess they get lost after leaf peeping season.
Hate to break it to you but most people in Vermont are from NY these days.
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Old 08-11-2016, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
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There is great fall foliage in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota too. Anywhere north is going to have it. I don't really know where the New England thing came from.
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Old 08-11-2016, 04:59 PM
 
131 posts, read 97,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
There is great fall foliage in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota too. Anywhere north is going to have it. I don't really know where the New England thing came from.

A poster from Southern California. Look at their posts. It goes back to page one and two.
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Old 08-11-2016, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Lil Rhodey
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There are a lot of components that come together that can affect the Fall foliage. A dry or cool Summer will make the leaves turn sooner and wont be as vibrant (trees that are stressed because of disease or weather conditions will be the first to turn color) . A wet Summer sometimes keeps the leaves on the trees longer. A cold snap kicks up the color (the reds, caused by a chemical the maples make when the temp goes below freezing). Altitude affects the timing (because of temp. drops) as well as latitude. I grew up in New England and I can tell you the foliage timing and quality can vary year to year. It's not just ONE thing that causes the leaves to change.
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvpsharky View Post
There are a lot of components that come together that can affect the Fall foliage. A dry or cool Summer will make the leaves turn sooner and wont be as vibrant (trees that are stressed because of disease or weather conditions will be the first to turn color) . A wet Summer sometimes keeps the leaves on the trees longer. A cold snap kicks up the color (the reds, caused by a chemical the maples make when the temp goes below freezing). Altitude affects the timing (because of temp. drops) as well as latitude. I grew up in New England and I can tell you the foliage timing and quality can vary year to year. It's not just ONE thing that causes the leaves to change.
Yes it is, in terms of trigger. The mechanism is triggered solely by nights lengthening/days shortening to a specific threshold. After that, other factors (temps, moisture, etc) can each play their role in affecting vibrancy/intensity of fall color.
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRAL View Post
Yes it is, in terms of trigger. The mechanism is triggered solely by nights lengthening/days shortening to a specific threshold. After that, other factors (temps, moisture, etc) can each play their role in affecting vibrancy/intensity of fall color.
People have already said that some species don't change until exposed to freezing temps, and I've already mentioned about how trees in mountains change sooner, but you're still at it.

You act as if trees are as simple as you think. Again, if leaf change was solely a thing of sunlight then leaf change would always start the same time each year. Except it doesn't. A colder than normal September will produce earlier colour and a warmer than normal October will produce later colour.

You also contradict yourself by saying "Texas isn't cold enough for dormancy" and then say "cold has nothing to do with it." Which is it, esse? And how come southern California doesn't have the leaves changing like Georgia or TN do? Sunlight is the same. Even the same species of tree will not change at the same time in the same latitude if one place is too warm.
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Old 08-12-2016, 08:13 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
People have already said that some species don't change until exposed to freezing temps, and I've already mentioned about how trees in mountains change sooner, but you're still at it.

You act as if trees are as simple as you think. Again, if leaf change was solely a thing of sunlight then leaf change would always start the same time each year. Except it doesn't. A colder than normal September will produce earlier colour and a warmer than normal October will produce later colour.
Because people have misconceptions. Again, these are facts here:

Quote:
The process that starts the cascade of events that result in fall color is actually a growth process. In late summer or early autumn, the days begin to get shorter, and nights are longer. Like most plants, deciduous trees and shrubs are rather sensitive to length of the dark period each day. When nights reach a threshold value and are long enough, the cells near the juncture of the leaf and the stem divide rapidly, but they do not expand. This abscission layer is a corky layer of cells that slowly begins to block transport of materials such as carbohydrates from the leaf to the branch. It also blocks the flow of minerals from the roots into the leaves. Because the starting time of the whole process is dependent on night length, fall colors appear at about the same time each year in a given location, whether temperatures are cooler or warmer than normal.
The Science of Color in Autumn Leaves

So, yes, temperatures can affect the display of fall color, but the initiation of color changing process in those leaves in the first place is due solely to the threshold time of day shortening/night lengthening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
You also contradict yourself by saying "Texas isn't cold enough for dormancy" and then say "cold has nothing to do with it." Which is it, esse?
There is no contradiction, you just don't know how to grasp nuance.

Yes, Texas, and the entire southern tier of the US is too warm for dormancy, in the sense that the plants that evolved in those regions would have all been evergreen, had it not been for unique geographic circumstances, which were exploited in the glacial maximum of the last Ice Age. To underscore this point, you will find that the ranges of decidious trees like the red maple and the bald cypress go all the way down to tropical South Florida:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_r...on_and_habitat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxodium_distichum

At the same time, cold does not initiate the fall color process in deciduous trees, but decreasing day length to a specific threshold does. At this point, I am talking of the initial trigger for fall color. It can be that in the latitudes up north, such decreasing day length was a signal to such trees that cold conditions were about to start. But, given that the South doesn't experience true winter cold, and for long periods of time, such a process is useless, with lots of energy being wasted, and evergreens, which don't have to expend such energy, will out compete the deciduous trees, eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
And how come southern California doesn't have the leaves changing like Georgia or TN do? Sunlight is the same. Even the same species of tree will not change at the same time in the same latitude if one place is too warm.
Southern California gets fall color, but, as stated before, temperatures, wet or dryness, etc can affect intensity/vibrancy of the color. Being that such conditions are different in SoCal than in Tennessee or Georgia, it is obvious that displays won't be the same.
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Old 08-13-2016, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRAL View Post
It's not opinion, it is fact. NC is a subtropical state.
As is the fact that every year there's plenty of fall color across the state, along with many other areas categorized as a Koppen Cfa "humid subtropical" climate. Of course, it's often considered somewhat of a misnomer because of cool to cold winters that exist in part of the region. By definition, both Tampa and Philadelphia often fall into the Cfa zone and are regarded as subtropical, though we're all aware that the winters are quite different.....

Back to your comments, why even bother making the literal argument that NC doesn't have fall colors? Ten million people live in the state and an overwhelming majority see significant color every year. Apparently it's time for you to pay a visit. Do areas in the coastal plain or along the beach see as much vibrancy as New England? No, but that's not what you're saying. Again, it sounds like you have some exploring to do this fall!

As to this overall thread, yes certain places get known for certain things, and regional marketing tends to play up those attributes. Costa Rica, for example has done a great job in promoting tourism to people in the US, but the truth is that the surrounding countries look very similar. And as others have mentioned, CO gets a ton of attention for skiing but it's not only place where one can hit the slopes. Heck, even my friends in the state believe the hype. When we moved from CO to WA, one of our friends (from Denver, no less) asked us, "aren't you going to miss the mountains?"

There's a lot of leaf color- and variation in timing and coloration- around the country. It's certainly not limited to New England.
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Old 08-13-2016, 03:37 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartonizer View Post
As is the fact that every year there's plenty of fall color across the state, along with many other areas categorized as a Koppen Cfa "humid subtropical" climate. Of course, it's often considered somewhat of a misnomer because of cool to cold winters that exist in part of the region. By definition, both Tampa and Philadelphia often fall into the Cfa zone and are regarded as subtropical, though we're all aware that the winters are quite different.....

Back to your comments, why even bother making the literal argument that NC doesn't have fall colors? Ten million people live in the state and an overwhelming majority see significant color every year. Apparently it's time for you to pay a visit. Do areas in the coastal plain or along the beach see as much vibrancy as New England? No, but that's not what you're saying. Again, it sounds like you have some exploring to do this fall!
Real significant fall color only happens in far inland/elevated areas of the South. And even said areas of the region are much too warm, climate-wise, for the annual shed/growth cycle of deciduous trees to be an evolutionary advantage.
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