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Old 08-09-2016, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRAL View Post
Nonsense. The native vegetation of in much of Texas is indeed evergreen (or semi-evergreen), just more xeric in comparison to what seen in Louisiana or Alabama. For example, the Texas live oak is a xeric, more drought adapted form of the typical live oak species that grows all along the coastal South (west into the Texas Gulf):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_fusiformis

Deciduous trees in Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, and other southern areas of the US are relics, and will be replaced by evergreens in the future.



Because the snow and winter precip events you describe are far to brief (on a climactic scale), and the winter lows are followed by warmer daytime highs; there is a huge difference between having average low temps of 30-33F, and having average high temps of those same values (as seen in Chicago). Although the low temps are cold, because the day time is warmer, there is no need for dormancy.

Allow me to introduce you to the Korean Peninsula, which has broadleaf, subtropical evergreen forests, even in areas that have the same average lows you posted. Here is one such city:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeosu#Climate

The ecoregion in question:
Eastern Asia: Southern tip of the Korean Peninsula | Ecoregions | WWF



It is more about the persistence and longevity of extreme cold conditions rather than just freezing and coldness in and of itself. If a place consistently freezes, but temps are no lower than the upper 20s, and always rebound to higher afternoon temps, that is still warm enough for evergreen forests to exist. You should really look up areas in East Asia; they have broadleaved evergreen forests even in areas that average lows near freezing, because the highs still are warmer, and, thus, the area is not cold enough for dormancy.

Pecan trees evolved in the northern US (but not too far north), but forced south during the Ice Age. Other deciduous trees in the South may have evolved during the colder Ice Age conditions. Regardless, with the warmer climate, evergreens will still replace the deciduous trees.

This place is colder on average than Dallas during winter and is lined with palm trees.
Much of Texas is in the great plains, a different ecosystem than the woodlands of Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama. Only the eastern part resembles the woodlands of the Southeast. The far west is a desert.

It doesn't matter how warm it is in the day, it's still considerably cold enough at night, also it doesn't even warm up that much. Mid 50s normally, that's not warm enough to prevent dormancy. It also generally reaches the teens once or twice a year. That's not record cold, that's average annual minimum. Why are you in such denial about this? "Relics of the ice age." Gimme a break. Have you ever been to Texas? The first time I was in east Texas, I was completely stunned by the abundance of pine trees. The part of Texas I had lived in and been in was wide, open, dryish and had far more deciduous than evergreens. Evergreens don't dominate most of the state and as KathrynAragon mentioned, the northeastern part still has lots of deciduous trees.

We have "relics of the ice age" yet they still shed their leaves each autumn like clockwork lol. If they were merely relics they wouldn't lose their leaves as they do up north. Our climate substains deciduous leaf cycles, deal with it. You don't needa have Boston's climate for that, you just need cold enough fall and winter weather. Our November averages are about the same as much of New England in October. Why would we not have natural leaf change?
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:45 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye614 View Post
New Jersey has gorgeous fall foliage.
Especially in northwestern New Jersey. It helps to have forest covered hills, you can see more autumn trees then in flat areas.

The Official Web Site for The State of New Jersey - Photo Gallery - Autumn (autumn 2008 New Jersey) This website has some photos that might shock people because it is not what you think of New Jersey.

In the fall, people like to get away from the cities and suburbs so they sometimes overlook what is in their own backyard and head off to the Poconos, the Catskills, the Berkshires and the Green Mountains.
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRAL View Post
This is fall color for many portions of the South:




Not my picture
Many, but not most. Pretty much just FL, parts of MS, AL, GA and SC. Most of it looks more like this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-kytmjNA3E...600/RdFall.jpg

Denton looks NOTHING like that pic you posted. We resemble more Kansas, Nebraska or western Iowa than what looks like Jurassic Park lol. It's flat open spaces, not that woodsy, though with occasional woodsy patches, and mostly oak and hickory trees with a few pines. Evergreen species do not thrive here, there's only a handful of evergreen broadleaf.

You also gotta remember we have some of the most unstable weather in the South. It can be in the teens in January as easily as it can be in the 70s. It swings.
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Many, but not most. Pretty much just FL, parts of MS, AL, GA and SC. Most of it looks more like this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-kytmjNA3E...600/RdFall.jpg

Denton looks NOTHING like that pic you posted. We resemble more Kansas, Nebraska or western Iowa than what looks like Jurassic Park lol. It's flat open spaces, not that woodsy, though with occasional woodsy patches, and mostly oak and hickory trees with a few pines. Evergreen species do not thrive here, there's only a handful of evergreen broadleaf.

You also gotta remember we have some of the most unstable weather in the South. It can be in the teens in January as easily as it can be in the 70s. It swings.
The only reason Denton isn't forested is due to the heavy clay soil, which precludes extensive forest. If Denton had soil like Tyler, TX, it would be covered with thick pine forest. Trust me. Many evergreens can take temps down to the teens and single digits, they would survive in Denton.

Even the open space areas look nothing like the Midwest; Denton's open spaces are more subtropical, like the Argentinean Pampas.

Yes, the inland South swings during winter, but the low temps still aren't severe enough, nor do they last long enough, to warrant dormancy in trees.
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Much of Texas is in the great plains, a different ecosystem than the woodlands of Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama. Only the eastern part resembles the woodlands of the Southeast. The far west is a desert.
Yes, much of Texas is in the Great Plains; the warm, subtropical evergreen portion of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
It doesn't matter how warm it is in the day, it's still considerably cold enough at night, also it doesn't even warm up that much. Mid 50s normally, that's not warm enough to prevent dormancy. It also generally reaches the teens once or twice a year. That's not record cold, that's average annual minimum. Why are you in such denial about this? "Relics of the ice age." Gimme a break. Have you ever been to Texas? The first time I was in east Texas, I was completely stunned by the abundance of pine trees. The part of Texas I had lived in and been in was wide, open, dryish and had far more deciduous than evergreens. Evergreens don't dominate most of the state and as KathrynAragon mentioned, the northeastern part still has lots of deciduous trees.
50s is more than warm enough to prevent dormancy; those are average winter temps in many areas of the Mediterranean. You think plants need to go dormant in Nice, France?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice#Climate

Yes, temps take dips to the teens, but, given that many evergreens can survive teens, and that such occurrences are brief in the inland South, it still isn't enough for winter dormancy.

No denial, just providing hard, solid fact. Once again, this place is colder on average than Dallas during winter and is lined with palm trees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
We have "relics of the ice age" yet they still shed their leaves each autumn like clockwork lol. If they were merely relics they wouldn't lose their leaves as they do up north. Our climate substains deciduous leaf cycles, deal with it. You don't needa have Boston's climate for that, you just need cold enough fall and winter weather. Our November averages are about the same as much of New England in October. Why would we not have natural leaf change?
Well, the trees in the inland South retain their leaves much later than up North, so technically, it isn't the same. You need sustained, prolonged sheer cold in order to provide the winter period necessary for dormancy; brief cold snaps don't cut it.
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles,CA & Scottsdale, AZ
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Yeah, fall foliage isn't restricted to New England lol. Out here in the west Arizona, Colorado, Utah,and California all have great fall foliage.
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:38 PM
 
470 posts, read 286,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i'm not a cookie View Post
Yeah, fall foliage isn't restricted to New England lol. Out here in the west Arizona, Colorado, Utah,and California all have great fall foliage.
And all those locations are high in the mountains.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
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I remember reading a while ago, that fall colors are intensified by soil that has low fertility, and that this especially true of maple trees. If that is the case, it seems reasonable that the best places for fall foliage would have infertile soil and have maples as part of the mix of trees. Some of the places where that is the case are northern New England, upstate NY, northern Michigan (especially the UP), northern Minnesota, Quebec, Ontario and the Appalachians down to Tennessee. Not coincidentally, all of those places are famous for fall foliage. By comparison, what we get here in southern Minnesota is nothing to write home about.

This is the natural distribution of Sugar Maples in the US. Cross reference this with the areas where the soil is too poor for agriculture and that is where you find great fall colors:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_s...ange_map_1.png
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:48 PM
 
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What makes great fall color is also the type of trees. Maple trees do make great fall color.
Fall color in Texas is not vibrant, probably due to the types of trees planted.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:57 PM
 
470 posts, read 286,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nn2036 View Post
What makes great fall color is also the type of trees. Maple trees do make great fall color.
Fall color in Texas is not vibrant, probably due to the types of trees planted.
Exactly. Texas is too warm in climate to have the types of vibrant fall color as up north. Many of Texas's trees are subtropical evergreens, which never lose their leaves. Even the deciduous trees are merely Ice Age relics, which are slowly evolving to be evergreen; you can see this process with many later tree generations holding on to their leaves longer and longer. This is why fall color in Texas appears "dull."

Same goes for the entire Southern US tier.
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