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Old 08-10-2016, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,099 posts, read 4,737,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRAL View Post
It's not opinion, it is fact. NC is a subtropical state.
Viral's right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_North_Carolina

Most of NC is sub-tropical.

People don't realize this but as far north as Downstate NY is warm temperate/sub tropical (that's why you can grow magnolias on Long Island). Ocean currents, baby.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_New_York
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,061 posts, read 3,388,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRAL View Post
Tyler has deciduous trees for the same reason the rest of the inland Southern US does; they are Ice Age relics. Never said anything about Denton being able to grow tropical plants and evergreens like Miami, so I have no clue why you are even bringing it up.

I believe I should have specified the areas of the Pampas I was speaking of, so here it goes:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humid_Pampas

Both the Denton spaces and the Humid Pampas are subtropical grassland regions, and, thus, are alike in many ways. The subtropical part of the Great Plains corresponds to the entirety of Oklahoma, as well as far southern areas of Kansas and Missouri, so it is no surprise that the resemblance is there. The trees that you see in Denton don't even range above Oklahoma/lower Midwest:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideroxylon_lanuginosum
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_fusiformis

My only argument is that the cold experienced in Denton isn't enough to warrant plants to evolve dormancy. Yes, there are trees go bare, but they are Ice Age relics.



Denton isn't cooler than Dallas enough to make a difference, and given the close proximity between the two locales, there would hardly be that significant of a difference, in that it is 50s in Denton, yet 70s in Dallas ( unless temporarily as a cold front moves through).

I showed Miyazaki more to illustrate the point that cool averages/winter temps (i.e. average highs in the 50s) don't impede evergreen plant growth, as long as conditions remain overall warm enough to prevent winter dormancy. While North Texas is indeed more continental than South Japan, it still remains warm enough for evergreens, since many species can take the conditions seen in even the most extreme deviation scenarios. Again, places in South Korea with average lows below freezing are evergreen.

Deciduous trees in the southern US are Ice Age relics, end of story.

What trees do you see in Denton? Tell me. Cuz there's some tree species I see here that I've seen in Kansas City, there's also the northern catalpa which is abundant in Denton, and is mostly found in the Midwest and can be found in upstate New York. There's a ton of deciduous oaks here.

Most trees go bare here, not "some" MOST. I bet you haven't been here in winter so, until you do, until you come in late fall or winter, or even early spring, just stop..

Do you even know what evergreen means? The word evergreen doesn't mean "tropical." Guess what? Canada's full of evergreens too. They have evergreen conifers. The only non-pine evergreen trees here would be the live oaks you mentioned. That's about it, besides some small desert trees or desert palms that are not even native. The native trees of the area are mostly deciduous. We have some pines and heck, even one of the pine species is deciduous too.

Anyway whatever BS point you're so intent on proving is moot, cuz come Halloween through Thanksgiving, north Texas is full of fall colour. It's not as idyllic as the north, or the upper south, but it's there, and I enjoy it.

Also there was a morning in October where I was on the phone with a friend from Garland (who now lives with me) and he said it was in the 70s there, while it was about 59 here. He said it was already hot outside and I said "really? Kinda cool here." Maybe it was a rare moment, idk.
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,061 posts, read 3,388,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Viral's right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_North_Carolina

Most of NC is sub-tropical.

People don't realize this but as far north as Downstate NY is warm temperate/sub tropical (that's why you can grow magnolias on Long Island). Ocean currents, baby.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_New_York
Well it's a good thing sub-tropical does not mean "no fall colours." Or were my eyes deceiving me when I flew into the ATL airport from Miami in early November one year, and was greeted with an ocean of reds, yellows and oranges surrounding the city?
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:34 PM
 
1,112 posts, read 696,020 times
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Everywhere shaded except the coastal deep South in this map gets fall colors.

image from Wikipedia
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:54 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
What trees do you see in Denton? Tell me. Cuz there's some tree species I see here that I've seen in Kansas City, there's also the northern catalpa which is abundant in Denton, and is mostly found in the Midwest and can be found in upstate New York. There's a ton of deciduous oaks here.

Most trees go bare here, not "some" MOST. I bet you haven't been here in winter so, until you do, until you come in late fall or winter, or even early spring, just stop..
The northern catalpa is clearly a planted specimen in Denton; the native range of the species does not go outside the Midwest:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalpa_speciosa

All decidious trees in Denton are, again, either planted, or Ice Age relics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Do you even know what evergreen means? The word evergreen doesn't mean "tropical." Guess what? Canada's full of evergreens too. They have evergreen conifers. The only non-pine evergreen trees here would be the live oaks you mentioned. That's about it, besides some small desert trees or desert palms that are not even native. The native trees of the area are mostly deciduous. We have some pines and heck, even one of the pine species is deciduous too.
You can't read, can you?

Did I say "evergreen" meant "tropical?" No. I was saying clearly saying that the evergreens that would grow in Denton would obviously be nothing like Miami's, which, in turn, was in response to this:

Quote:
Bro, I grew up in Miami.. None of the vegetation here is anything like down in Miami.
... yet another instance of your strawman arguments, since I never said anything about Denton's plants being like Miami.

Other than the live oak, there is also sideroxylon lanuginosum, juniperus virginiana, and sabal minor, just to name some evergreens, out of quite a few seen in/around Denton. Also, of course, the pines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Anyway whatever BS point you're so intent on proving is moot, cuz come Halloween through Thanksgiving, north Texas is full of fall colour. It's not as idyllic as the north, or the upper south, but it's there, and I enjoy it.

Also there was a morning in October where I was on the phone with a friend from Garland (who now lives with me) and he said it was in the 70s there, while it was about 59 here. He said it was already hot outside and I said "really? Kinda cool here." Maybe it was a rare moment, idk.
Yes, enjoy the fall color. Just know that those trees are Ice Age relics in Denton, and will be replaced by evergreens in the future.

Again, there would hardly be much difference in temp between Denton, and other areas in Dallas. Please.
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:55 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ialmostforgot View Post
Everywhere shaded except the coastal deep South in this map gets fall colors.

image from Wikipedia
Well, different maps say different things:
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:56 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,430 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Well it's a good thing sub-tropical does not mean "no fall colours." Or were my eyes deceiving me when I flew into the ATL airport from Miami in early November one year, and was greeted with an ocean of reds, yellows and oranges surrounding the city?
I mean, Ice Age relics will behave as they should, corresponding only to decreasing day-length (and not even temperature).
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Old 08-10-2016, 08:09 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,909,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Viral's right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_North_Carolina

Most of NC is sub-tropical.

People don't realize this but as far north as Downstate NY is warm temperate/sub tropical (that's why you can grow magnolias on Long Island). Ocean currents, baby.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_New_York
Not to go off topic too much but I cannot stand this BS that New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, etc. are in the same climate zone - subtropical - as say South Carolina or Florida. It makes no sense and at the very least is a misuse of that beautiful word tropical as commonly understood.

Here is the thing, you CAN grow certain southern species of plants/trees on Long Island or NYC but they are at the limits of their range. For instance my neighbor here in Babylon once had a fig tree in his yard which he covered with tarp every winter. When he moved the new neighbors did not bother to cover the tree (even though I warned them) and it died that very winter.

NYC and Long Island maybe in plant zone 7 like most of Virginia and much of North Carolina but only a few miles separate Downstate NY from much colder areas. This colder air often crosses over those few miles. This is why Long Island averages 32.55 inches of snow and NYC averages 26.9 inches while our Southern cousins; Richmond, VA averages 10.3 inches and Charlotte, NC averages about 4.3 inches a year.
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Old 08-10-2016, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,099 posts, read 4,737,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Well it's a good thing sub-tropical does not mean "no fall colours." Or were my eyes deceiving me when I flew into the ATL airport from Miami in early November one year, and was greeted with an ocean of reds, yellows and oranges surrounding the city?
My post had nothing to do with that. I was speaking about the climate zone.
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Old 08-10-2016, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,061 posts, read 3,388,244 times
Reputation: 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRAL View Post
The northern catalpa is clearly a planted specimen in Denton; the native range of the species does not go outside the Midwest:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalpa_speciosa

All decidious trees in Denton are, again, either planted, or Ice Age relics.



You can't read, can you?

Did I say "evergreen" meant "tropical?" No. I was saying clearly saying that the evergreens that would grow in Denton would obviously be nothing like Miami's, which, in turn, was in response to this:



... yet another instance of your strawman arguments, since I never said anything about Denton's plants being like Miami.

Other than the live oak, there is also sideroxylon lanuginosum, juniperus virginiana, and sabal minor, just to name some evergreens, out of quite a few seen in/around Denton. Also, of course, the pines.



Yes, enjoy the fall color. Just know that those trees are Ice Age relics in Denton, and will be replaced by evergreens in the future.

Again, there would hardly be much difference in temp between Denton, and other areas in Dallas. Please.
The Northern catalpa may very well be planted, or maybe this just happens to be the southern extension of its natural range. Trees don't follow state lines. Regardless, the tree fares well here and follows the same patterns as further up north. Flowers in the spring, yellow falling leaves in fall. The difference is that it happens weeks earlier/later than in Illinois for example.

I know you didn't say it was gonna have the same plants as Miami, however you're still saying it like it's LIKE Miami where trees don't go dormant. Guess what? You plant a northern species in Miami, it will stay green year round. The change of leaves in autumn is triggered more by temp than sunlight, otherwise how do you explain the mountains of Tennessee being covered in orange leaves in October where as the low lands of the same latitude, are still green? How do you explain on warm years the foliage changing later than cold years? How do you explain on a cold spring, the leaves growing back later? For example, March 2015 still had snow on the ground for the part of Texas I lived in for the first week, March 2016 had no snow, and neither did the winter as a whole. March 1st already had some flowering trees and buds. Oh, but these trees aren't affected by temperature right, which means every year on March 1st we'll see the same leaves growing back, regardless of snow or ice

"Replaced by evergreens in the future.." Sure. Maybe. Though by that time most of the east coast will be a sunken ruin, and giant spiders will rule the earth.

Never answered my question. Have you been to Denton? Ever? Have you been to north Texas? Those tree species you listed are a minority here, the vast majority are sticks in winter without any leaf.
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