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View Poll Results: Is The South Too Warm For Deciduous Trees?
Yes 1 2.78%
No 35 97.22%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-16-2016, 10:20 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,532 times
Reputation: 151

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
I am no where near an expert on trees, so sorry for the stupid questions. Do evergreens have some sort of reproductive advantage over deciduous trees? I'm asking because, if not, I don't understand why we should expect them to die out and be replaced even if it is too warm for them to regularly shed their leaves.
Evergreens have the advantage over deciduous trees in energy utilization. The annual drop/growth cycle of deciduous trees uses a lot of energy, which evergreens, retaining their leaves year-round, don't have to waste. Even the coldest areas of the South are home to evergreen trees, because although the cold in winter is present, it doesn't have the duration, nor the intensity to necessitate winter dormancy. Because of this resource advantage, evergreens can easily out-compete, and takeover areas that are deciduous. This is especially the case in acidic soils, which tend to be leached and, thus, nutrient poor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
Also, another stupid question, but don't the mountains in the South, at least, get cold enough for dormancy?
Not really. If you look at East Asia, at the South Korean peninsular tip, you will find what basically looks like broad-leaf evergreen jungle existing where average winter lows are below freezing, and highs are below 40F. Even Asheville, NC, highly elevated, has an average high near 50F; thus, although winter lows are cold, days stay above freezing.

 
Old 08-16-2016, 10:22 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,532 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo View Post
This thread has a ridiculous premise. Either that or those leaves that fall in my yard every February from deciduous trees, like oak, hackberry and persimmon, are just an illusion and I don't need to get out the leaf blower to gather them.
Those trees in your yard were planted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
if the tree species have been hanging in since the last Ice age, i feel good asserting that the south is not too warm for them.

the seed is strong.
The trees (those that can tolerate hot summers, at least) will hang, before they get replaced by more tropical, evergreen trees (live oaks, magnolias, mahogany, etc).
 
Old 08-16-2016, 10:24 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,135 posts, read 21,891,633 times
Reputation: 23217
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deciduous

Thought maybe you were talking about something else so I looked it up. I will share some pictures with you so you can see for yourself. If the south were too warm for them I am sure they wouldn't grow here but...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...ains&FORM=IGRE

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...otte&FORM=IGRE

It is even cool enough here to grow Christmas trees that have no bugs in them.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...unty&FORM=IGRE

Last edited by NCN; 08-16-2016 at 10:32 PM..
 
Old 08-16-2016, 10:27 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,532 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deciduous

Thought maybe you were talking about something else so I looked it up. I will share some pictures with you in a minute so you can see for yourself. If the south were too warm for them I am sure they wouldn't grow here but...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...ains&FORM=IGRE
The deciduous trees can grow in the SE US, but would be taken over by evergreens eventually. Evergreens don't have to waste energy like deciduous trees do.
 
Old 08-16-2016, 10:39 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,532 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo View Post
This thread has a ridiculous premise. Either that or those leaves that fall in my yard every February from deciduous trees, like oak, hackberry and persimmon, are just an illusion and I don't need to get out the leaf blower to gather them.
San Antonio is definitely too warm for deciduous trees to exist for long; winter highs are in the 60s, and lows are in the 40s, which is the same as seen in many areas of Med coast of Europe and Africa. Even the winter cold snaps aren't extreme enough affect the evergreens:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_An...and_vegetation
 
Old 08-16-2016, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,583 posts, read 4,008,695 times
Reputation: 2926
do you have a forestry resource for your theory?
 
Old 08-16-2016, 10:47 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,135 posts, read 21,891,633 times
Reputation: 23217
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRAL View Post
The deciduous trees can grow in the SE US, but would be taken over by evergreens eventually. Evergreens don't have to waste energy like deciduous trees do.
Poppycock. I have to remove more hardwoods from around my fence in our yard that the birds drop off than evergreens. You don't know what you are talking about. If you were right I would only be removing evergreens. I live pretty much in the center of North and South Carolina and right now it is in the 90's. We get down to the 20's in winter.
 
Old 08-16-2016, 10:51 PM
 
470 posts, read 287,532 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Poppycock. I have to remove more hardwoods from around my fence in our yard that the birds drop off than evergreens. You don't know what you are talking about.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1937234...n_tab_contents


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreen
Quote:
In areas where there is a reason for being deciduous (e.g., a cold season or dry season), being evergreen is usually an adaptation to low nutrient levels. Deciduous trees lose nutrients whenever they lose their leaves. In warmer areas, species such as some pines and cypresses grow on poor soils and disturbed ground. In Rhododendron, a genus with many broadleaf evergreens, several species grow in mature forests but are usually found on highly acidic soil where the nutrients are less available to plants. In taiga or boreal forests, it is too cold for the organic matter in the soil to decay rapidly, so the nutrients in the soil are less easily available to plants, thus favouring evergreens.

In temperate climates, evergreens can reinforce their own survival; evergreen leaf and needle litter has a higher carbon-nitrogen ratio than deciduous leaf litter, contributing to a higher soil acidity and lower soil nitrogen content. These conditions favour the growth of more evergreens and make it more difficult for deciduous plants to persist.

Last edited by VIRAL; 08-16-2016 at 10:59 PM..
 
Old 08-16-2016, 10:57 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,911,493 times
Reputation: 6424
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRAL View Post
In this thread here, there has been disagreement as to whether or not the South was too warm for deciduous trees to exist. I've posed my arguments about the subject, which you can view here.

Basically, I'd say that the South is just too warm year-round to the point that the yearly dormancy deciduous trees undergo are just unnecessary in the region. The deciduous trees present in the region are nothing but relics from the last Ice Age, when glaciers extended further south, and replacement with evergreens is slowed down by the North American geography (cut off from the tropics by desert and ocean). But, in the future, deciduous trees will go extinct in the South, and be replaced with evergreens.

The South Is Too Warm For Deciduous Trees: Am I Right?

No, you are wrong.

Just by saying "the South" you are wrong because large parts of the South does loose it leaves. Even if you have never been there in the Winter, you can still use common sense and realize that some parts of the South can get quite cold. At the very least, the states of the Upper South and along the Appalachian Mountains.

https://weather.com/maps/fall-foliage (Fall Foliage Map - note it includes at least half the South)

You should have said parts of the South and then maybe you would be right.



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Alabama's Official Travel Guide - Alabama.Travel - Local Tips for Your Alabama Vacation (Alabama Fall Color Trail)

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Old 08-16-2016, 10:59 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,911,493 times
Reputation: 6424
Default The South Is Too Warm For Deciduous Trees: Am I Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRAL View Post
In this thread here, there has been disagreement as to whether or not the South was too warm for deciduous trees to exist. I've posed my arguments about the subject, which you can view here.

Basically, I'd say that the South is just too warm year-round to the point that the yearly dormancy deciduous trees undergo are just unnecessary in the region. The deciduous trees present in the region are nothing but relics from the last Ice Age, when glaciers extended further south, and replacement with evergreens is slowed down by the North American geography (cut off from the tropics by desert and ocean). But, in the future, deciduous trees will go extinct in the South, and be replaced with evergreens.
The South Is Too Warm For Deciduous Trees: Am I Right?

No, you are wrong.

Just by saying "the South" you are wrong because large parts of the South does loose it leaves. Even if you have never been there in the Winter, you can still use common sense and realize that some parts of the South can get quite cold. At the very least, the states of the Upper South and along the Appalachian Mountains.

https://weather.com/maps/fall-foliage (Fall Foliage Map - note it includes at least half the South)

You should have said parts of the South and then maybe you would be right.

Fall Color Like Never Before - Southern Living (Southern Fall Color)

Fall Color in the Carolinas : Extension : Clemson University : South Carolina (fall colors of the Carolinas)

Alabama's Official Travel Guide - Alabama.Travel - Local Tips for Your Alabama Vacation (Alabama Fall Color Trail)

Fall In Virginia - Virginia Is For Lovers (Fall in Virginia)

Best Places to See Fall Foliage - Fall Festivals in KY - Kentucky ColorFall (Kentucky)

Best Places to See Fall Foliage - Fall Vacations - Arkansas Fall Foliage (Arkansas Fall Foliage)
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