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View Poll Results: Upstate NY: More like Pennsylvania or New England?
Pennsylvania 34 65.38%
New England 18 34.62%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-19-2016, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I didn't see where he said the Northeastern Great Lakes cities have no Midwestern influences.
Why would they make that statement at all if they weren't denying Midwestern influence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
That seems to be the complete opposite of what you were saying earlier. Much of the interior Northeast shares cultural similarities with the Midwest; that can't be denied, but they are still Northeastern cities.
The entire point of this thread is what upstate New York is like. Reading back what I wrote I guess I could see why you'd think that but my point is that in this thread saying "Buffalo is Northeastern" is making a cultural claim more so than a geographic claim and the definitions people have of Northeastern and Midwestern culture don't map 1:1 to their geographic definitions.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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I think we're too get caught up on labels.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
Most of Upstate New York is like Pennsylvania. Lots of German heritage, neutral accents, etc. I've been to Ithaca and it reminded me more of Pennsylvania than anywhere in New England. And also saying that Buffalo, Erie, Pittsburgh, Rochester have no Midwestern influence is a complete lie. They share similar demographics, culture, and accents, etc. In fact these cities all have more in common with Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, even St. Louis than Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, DC, and Boston.
Again, that is more of a Great Lakes culture, if anything, but not necessarily a Midwestern culture.


There is a lot of Italian heritage in Upstate NY in a way that you don't see in even the Great Lakes portion of the Midwest outside of maybe Cleveland, Chicago and select places in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. In fact, I believe that all of the bigger Upstate NY metros are in the top 20 or 25 in terms of Italian percentage.


Where is the Native American culture in PA? Where is the French Canadian culture in PA? I'll give the Eastern European culture though.


You also have diverse Black populations in Upstate NY. While it is primarily African American, you do have Black people from the Caribbean and from parts of Africa as well.


Yes, the hilly terrain does make parts of Upstate NY look like PA, but you also have flatter parts of Upstate NY as well. PA doesn't really have a place like Ithaca that is set in a valley surrounded by hills, but that is right on a Finger Lake or a lake of a similar size. That is something that is more common in Upstate NY and even in New England, outside of Burlington, I don't think it is as common there as well.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Chicago has a lot of Catholics though...



I don't think Pittsburgh received much Black migration from the Carolinas. Probably Virginia early on. But for the most part, it was more or less part of the same migratory tree as Cleveland and Detroit. Buffalo, on the other hand, was a different story.


Revisiting the Great Migration

http://www.upress.pitt.edu/htmlsourc...2943914exr.pdf
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northedge View Post
Why would they make that statement at all if they weren't denying Midwestern influence?
Perhaps it's because of statements like yours that said the Northeastern Great Lakes cities are outright Midwestern.

Quote:
The entire point of this thread is what upstate New York is like. Reading back what I wrote I guess I could see why you'd think that but my point is that in this thread saying "Buffalo is Northeastern" is making a cultural claim more so than a geographic claim and the definitions people have of Northeastern and Midwestern culture don't map 1:1 to their geographic definitions.
Well that's because the Northeast isn't culturally monolithic just as the Midwest isn't. While the Northeastern corridor cities serve as the face of the region, they aren't the totality of the region. So it's not inaccurate to say that "Buffalo is Northeastern" because for one, it's factually correct in the strictest sense and secondly, it is also true culturally. It just so happens that being part of the Great Lakes subregion--which is also within the Midwest--there is some cultural bleeding taking place.

The most accurate statement to make is that the Northeastern Great Lakes cities are indeed Northeastern with some Midwestern Great Lakes cultural influences.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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That's nice. But the Great Migration didn't end in 1940. It actually accelerated Post WWII with most Blacks arriving in northern cities during the period from 1945-1970.

http://streets.mn/wp-content/uploads...-migration.jpg

Note where most Blacks in Pittsburgh were coming from.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:23 PM
 
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That Detroit/Georgia relationship is interesting; I would have thought it to be Detroit/Alabama. But then again, that graphic only documents the First Great Migration.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
That's nice. But the Great Migration didn't end in 1940. It actually accelerated Post WWII with most Blacks arriving in northern cities during the period from 1945-1970.

http://streets.mn/wp-content/uploads...-migration.jpg

Note where most Blacks in Pittsburgh were coming from.
Pittsburgh is an anomaly in that, its black population didn't grow as much in the second great migration. That's why Pittsburgh has a much smaller black population than most of its northeastern and Rust Belt peers. While the pattern may have shifted, it didn't have nearly the impact on the region as the first Migration.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,258,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
That Detroit/Georgia relationship is interesting; I would have thought it to be Detroit/Alabama.
Michigan seems to have gotten a lot from both states.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I can see an argument either way. It sort of depends on what area you are talking about.

The Adirondacks/Lake Champlain and the Hudson Valley I would say are more like New England. But Western New York and the Southern Tier are more like Pennsylvania. The Finger Lakes have a New England vibe but the open farmlands more common of Pennsylvania. Central New York often looks like Pennsylvania with its forested hills and valley farmlands but some of the villages look like New England. Finally the Catskills look a little like the surrounding mountains (the Taconics, Berkshires and the Poconos) but seem more like the Poconos then the Berkshires to me.

Regarding Downstate:
New York City looks more Philadelphia then Boston I would say but the suburbs; the lower Hudson Valley and Long Island look more like New England.

I would add that Pennsylvania does not have anything like Long Island and that New England does not have anything like Lake Erie or Lake Ontario.
I think this may sum it up, as you can have a New England like village set in a valley, next to a lake and surrounded by hills in a way that tends to be common in PA. Places like this come to mind: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6609...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3819...8i6656!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7004...7i13312!8i6656
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