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View Poll Results: Upstate NY: More like Pennsylvania or New England?
Pennsylvania 34 65.38%
New England 18 34.62%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-19-2016, 03:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Probably because there a comparatively few Blacks in Upstate NY. 82.0% of all Blacks in New York State live in the NYC metropolitan area.
Not surprising, as most of the people in the state live in that area. With that said, Rochester, Buffalo, Albany and Syracuse have higher Black percentages than NYC. Schenectady and Niagara Falls are about the same as NYC in that regard.
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Old 08-19-2016, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,237,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Not surprising, as most of the people in the state live in that area. With that said, Rochester, Buffalo, Albany and Syracuse have higher Black percentages than NYC. Schenectady and Niagara Falls are about the same as NYC in that regard.
Not at the MSA level. Interestingly enough, Pittsburgh has a higher Black % than NYC if we're only talking about city limits.

There are more Black people in Harlem than there are in the Buffalo metropolitan area.
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Old 08-19-2016, 04:12 PM
 
56,609 posts, read 80,910,543 times
Reputation: 12505
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Not at the MSA level. Interestingly enough, Pittsburgh has a higher Black % than NYC if we're only talking about city limits.

There are more Black people in Harlem than there are in the Buffalo metropolitan area.
Again, that isn't surprising given that Buffalo has about 1.1 million people in the metro and it is about 12-13% Black at the metro level. Buffalo is about 39% Black in terms of the city and has a little over 100,000 Black people. Rochester is 42% Black(metro is also about 12-13% Black), Albany is about 31% Black and Syracuse is 30% Black according to 2010 info. Niagara Falls and Schenectady are about 25% Black. I wouldn't be surprised if they are higher come 2020 and there are other Upstate NY cities and select suburbs where the Black percentage is increasing.

Pittsburgh having a slightly higher percentage than NYC isn't surprising. I believe that it was 20% Black by 1970 and there are quite a few suburbs/smaller satellite cities in that area with relatively decent to predominately Black percentages.
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Old 08-19-2016, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,226,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Pittsburgh is 26% Catholic, tied with NYC and Boston as the most Catholic city in America. Not a very Midwestern trait.

Pittsburgh's black population migrated primarily from Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia, whereas midwestern cities drew their Black population from Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee and Arkansas.

Pittsburgh has transit ridership rates higher than any midwestern city not named Chicago.

I could drop you in a working-class white Pittsburgh neighborhood, and you'd swear it was Philly.


There is no way in hell Pittsburgh has more in common with Chicago, Detroit or St Louis than it does with Philadelphia or Baltimore.
All Midwestern cities are very Catholic as well so don't see your point.
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Old 08-19-2016, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,734,481 times
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Depends on where you are.

North country is quite like rural New England/Canada. Everything east of the Hudson essentially IS New England. The Hudson valley makes up the border for most people.

Most of the central and western parts of the sate are much more like Pennsylvania to the south, and Michigan/Ohio to the north.

I'd say by comparison it has more in common with PA overall. The way the population sits, the rust belt/Appalachian hues, and especially the Amish and Mennonite ties.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Poughkeepsie, New York
86 posts, read 65,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserwithaName View Post
I didn't know New England was a state.

Why is an entire region being compared to a single state?

Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island don't feel like Vermont, New Hampshire or Maine.

It's 2016, not 1716.
Right, but they do all have a similar feel.

Comparing the whole of Upstate NY or Pennsylvania to just one tiny New England state wouldn't work out so well
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,734,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Again, that is more of a Great Lakes culture, if anything, but not necessarily a Midwestern culture.


There is a lot of Italian heritage in Upstate NY in a way that you don't see in even the Great Lakes portion of the Midwest outside of maybe Cleveland, Chicago and select places in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. In fact, I believe that all of the bigger Upstate NY metros are in the top 20 or 25 in terms of Italian percentage.


Where is the Native American culture in PA? Where is the French Canadian culture in PA? I'll give the Eastern European culture though.


You also have diverse Black populations in Upstate NY. While it is primarily African American, you do have Black people from the Caribbean and from parts of Africa as well.


Yes, the hilly terrain does make parts of Upstate NY look like PA, but you also have flatter parts of Upstate NY as well. PA doesn't really have a place like Ithaca that is set in a valley surrounded by hills, but that is right on a Finger Lake or a lake of a similar size. That is something that is more common in Upstate NY and even in New England, outside of Burlington, I don't think it is as common there as well.
I don't normally disagree so harshly with you, but this time I do.

Yes, there are a lot of Italians upstate but for most areas they are not the majority lineage. Germanic (all things therein) and Celtic/Anglo typically are. Italian majority is a minority thing in the grand scheme.

Pennsylvania also has a lot of Italian heritage and, like NY, it's concentrated into pockets across the state.

Native Americans and French Canada are your arguments for how NY is overall more like New England? Valid point but not the strongest angle.

Finally, the bold paragraph.

This is the one I take issue with the most, most, most. Places like Ithaca are not all that common in NY either. Ithaca is a very unique place topographically speaking. The way the hills and the lake meet is aside even from the other finger lakes, which all have FAR narrower and steeper valleys to the south and generally flat land to the north.

Let's see about some other southern finger lake towns. Watkins Glen. Hammondsport. Naples. ALL towns that would fit in just fine anywhere in PA. Replace the lake with a big river. or heck, just dry up the water in your mind. Not very different is it? In fact, without the water the lakes would be even more similar to the deep valleys of northern PA.

Even IF you still argue that the sizable finger lakes towns are more like New England; fine. However, how many are there exactly? Not many. Can't really call them common even in NY state. MOST hill-country NY towns look like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/K4Sgbwg1Ti52

https://goo.gl/maps/EfCqewKex9u

https://goo.gl/maps/ujp9Dwu9mM42

https://goo.gl/maps/KLAY5M66ubu

https://goo.gl/maps/95zEdpdwL7L2

Most of rural upstate NY looks like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/gb4mvDAipSF2

https://goo.gl/maps/EBHh6TWtm1G2

https://goo.gl/maps/ijb1SMxihax

https://goo.gl/maps/RTrtiZxJgju

GEE WHIZ! Where else looks an awful like all of that? Hmm... Pennslyvania maybe? Yeah, that's the one.

Let's find out what a lot of PA looks like:

https://goo.gl/maps/b9hRHcNSCL12

https://goo.gl/maps/eGRSFAT7Cyx

https://goo.gl/maps/72zG3be4f6N2

https://goo.gl/maps/G4oRuen4SRS2

https://goo.gl/maps/D2phZWp8gp82

https://goo.gl/maps/EQe96z748Tv

Hmm, yes. They do look nearly identical.

I know I'm being kind of a jerk, but come ON, man! You can't possibly think that Ithaca makes NY almost just like Connecticut and Vermont and nearly nothing like PA.

Further more, the flat parts of NY have a lot in common with Michigan and northern Ohio. Sure there are commonalities with New England as well, but they really don't outweigh the other side.

lastly, as I think some other people pointed out, NY has a lot more depressed and run down towns than New England. Something it shares with PA and Ohio.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:19 PM
 
56,609 posts, read 80,910,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
I don't normally disagree so harshly with you, but this time I do.

Yes, there are a lot of Italians upstate but for most areas they are not the majority lineage. Germanic (all things therein) and Celtic/Anglo typically are. Italian majority is a minority thing in the grand scheme.

Pennsylvania also has a lot of Italian heritage and, like NY, it's concentrated into pockets across the state.

Native Americans and French Canada are your arguments for how NY is overall more like New England? Valid point but not the strongest angle.

Finally, the bold paragraph.

This is the one I take issue with the most, most, most. Places like Ithaca are not all that common in NY either. Ithaca is a very unique place topographically speaking. The way the hills and the lake meet is aside even from the other finger lakes, which all have FAR narrower and steeper valleys to the south and generally flat land to the north.

Let's see about some other southern finger lake towns. Watkins Glen. Hammondsport. Naples. ALL towns that would fit in just fine anywhere in PA. Replace the lake with a big river. or heck, just dry up the water in your mind. Not very different is it? In fact, without the water the lakes would be even more similar to the deep valleys of northern PA.

Even IF you still argue that the sizable finger lakes towns are more like New England; fine. However, how many are there exactly? Not many. Can't really call them common even in NY state. MOST hill-country NY towns look like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/K4Sgbwg1Ti52

https://goo.gl/maps/EfCqewKex9u

https://goo.gl/maps/ujp9Dwu9mM42

https://goo.gl/maps/KLAY5M66ubu

https://goo.gl/maps/95zEdpdwL7L2

Most of rural upstate NY looks like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/gb4mvDAipSF2

https://goo.gl/maps/EBHh6TWtm1G2

https://goo.gl/maps/ijb1SMxihax

https://goo.gl/maps/RTrtiZxJgju

GEE WHIZ! Where else looks an awful like all of that? Hmm... Pennslyvania maybe? Yeah, that's the one.

Let's find out what a lot of PA looks like:

https://goo.gl/maps/b9hRHcNSCL12

https://goo.gl/maps/eGRSFAT7Cyx

https://goo.gl/maps/72zG3be4f6N2

https://goo.gl/maps/G4oRuen4SRS2

https://goo.gl/maps/D2phZWp8gp82

https://goo.gl/maps/EQe96z748Tv

Hmm, yes. They do look nearly identical.

I know I'm being kind of a jerk, but come ON, man! You can't possibly think that Ithaca makes NY almost just like Connecticut and Vermont and nearly nothing like PA.

Further more, the flat parts of NY have a lot in common with Michigan and northern Ohio. Sure there are commonalities with New England as well, but they really don't outweigh the other side.

lastly, as I think some other people pointed out, NY has a lot more depressed and run down towns than New England. Something it shares with PA and Ohio.
No, the mentioning of Native Americans was to show how it is unique to Upstate NY in comparison to both PA and New England.

I mentioned French Canadian lineage in relation to the Canadian influence in the North Country.

I'll give you the Irish ancestry in much of Upstate NY, but German ancestry depends on where in Upstate NY and it is generally pretty common in a large portion of the US.

Again, the mention of lake communities surrounded by hills was another example of a difference in comparison to PA and New England. I also posted examples of Penn Yan, Watkins Glen, Cooperstown, as well as Skaneateles and Cazenovia, which would also fit this description. That's not including Ithaca, Hammondsport, Aurora, Union Springs or even Canadaigua, among some others. I'm familiar with other communities that could fit in with PA, but there are also places with that stereotypical New England look like the aforementioned Clinton and Hamilton, along with multiple villages near the bigger Upstate NY cities. Sackets Harbor and Clayton are a couple of villages in the North Country near Watertown that come to mind in terms of a New England feel.

I also think that people forget about mill towns in New England that may not look as nice as other quaint New England communities. So, I'm not sure that New England is just a bunch of nice, neat, quaint communities along with some mid sized and a few major cities/areas.

Another difference is that Upstate NY has multiple Erie Canal communities like Brockport, Spencerport, Fairport, Pittsford(village), Newark, etc. I'm not sure that either PA or New England have such communities.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 08-19-2016 at 10:37 PM..
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Old 08-20-2016, 04:12 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,136 posts, read 9,907,336 times
Reputation: 6423
^ and ^^

I think Cookie was talking about Ithaca as being unique with regards to its topography. But otherwise I agree with Ckhthankgod, New York State has ALOT of cities and villages on or near decent sized lakes. Its not just on the Finger Lakes; Ithaca, Auburn, Geneva, Skaneatelas, Watkins Glen, Canandaigua etc. but places around the state. From cities like Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse to smaller cities like Jamestown (Chautauqua Lake) and Plattsburgh to villages like Cooperstown (Otsego Lake) and Ticonderoga.

New York is the King of Lakes in the Northeast.
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Old 08-20-2016, 05:22 AM
 
970 posts, read 1,640,800 times
Reputation: 1539
Some of New England is like Canada, some of PA is like New England, some of New England is like PA, some of PA is like Maryland (that's the south right?), some of PA is like OH (midwest or northeast?), some of PA is like WVA (northern south or southern north?). Therefore upstate NY is 31.8% PA and 83.23% New England, and the rest is eastern northern midwest. And Canadian. And Great Lakes... eastern Great Lakes that is.
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