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Says who??? How can you make these arbitrary statements so authoritatively???
The fact of the matter is that you're as wrong as two left shoes.
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Yeah, I never understood why people view them as "Midwestern" cities. They are still Northeastern cities, period.
These are also arbitrary statements made authoritatively. The way people define and group things varies and this started with ckhthankgod declaring any sense of Midwesternness from Buffalo and Rochester is wrong.
The simple reality is the people in Rochester and Buffalo has a lot in common with cities in the Midwest historically, economically, and culturally such as accents. Its more so with Great Lakes cities but also with cities like Cincinnati.
You're black and white views denying multiple definitions are the only things wrong here.
These are also arbitrary statements made authoritatively.
No, they aren't. It is an objective fact that the Great Lakes region is part of BOTH the Northeast and the Midwest, not solely the Midwest. Again, objective fact.
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The simple reality is the people in Rochester and Buffalo has a lot in common with cities in the Midwest historically, economically, and culturally such as accents. Its more so with Great Lakes cities but also with cities like Cincinnati.
That's a reasonable statement and I don't disagree; however, that doesn't make Rochester and Buffalo Midwestern. They are still Northeastern cities but part of a subregion that extends into the Midwest; thus, there will be some apparent similarities.
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You're black and white views denying multiple definitions are the only things wrong here.
There are no "multiple" definitions here; however, you have to make a distinction between geography and cultural influences. Obviously there is some overlap but not completely and totally.
Most of Upstate New York is like Pennsylvania. Lots of German heritage, neutral accents, etc. I've been to Ithaca and it reminded me more of Pennsylvania than anywhere in New England. And also saying that Buffalo, Erie, Pittsburgh, Rochester have no Midwestern influence is a complete lie. They share similar demographics, culture, and accents, etc. In fact these cities all have more in common with Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, even St. Louis than Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, DC, and Boston.
Most of Upstate New York is like Pennsylvania. Lots of German heritage, neutral accents, etc. I've been to Ithaca and it reminded me more of Pennsylvania than anywhere in New England. And also saying that Buffalo, Erie, Pittsburgh, Rochester and New York have no Midwestern influence is a complete lie. They share similar demographics, culture, and accents, etc. In fact these cities all have more in common with Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, even St. Louis than Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, DC, and Boston.
I'd say Upstate isn't a homogenous region. The Adirondacks/lake George area is very much like New England, particularly Vermont. Buffalo and Rochester are sort Midwestern in many ways. I'm not really sure about Syracuse or Albany.
ckthankgod responded with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Yeah, I never understood why people view them as "Midwestern" cities. They are still Northeastern cities, period.
I accept the general definitions of the Northeast and Midwest as defined by state borders and that the Great Lakes is split between them but we are talking about the cities and people and those definitions are not perfect for that. My argument was that what people generally consider "midwestern" is very much what is Great Lakes is many cases and by that idea being Great Lakes is being Midwestern. I'm clearly not the only one, there is a 12 page discussion of this in the Buffalo forum. http://www.city-data.com/forum/buffa...western-2.html
I didn't see where he said the Northeastern Great Lakes cities have no Midwestern influences.
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I accept the general definitions of the Northeast and Midwest as defined by state borders and that the Great Lakes is split between them but we are talking about the cities and people and those definitions are not perfect for that. My argument was that what people generally consider "midwestern" is very much what is Great Lakes is many cases and by that idea being Great Lakes is being Midwestern. I'm clearly not the only one, there is a 12 page discussion of this in the Buffalo forum. http://www.city-data.com/forum/buffa...western-2.html
That seems to be the complete opposite of what you were saying earlier. Much of the interior Northeast shares cultural similarities with the Midwest; that can't be denied, but they are still Northeastern cities.
Most of Upstate New York is like Pennsylvania. Lots of German heritage, neutral accents, etc. I've been to Ithaca and it reminded me more of Pennsylvania than anywhere in New England. And also saying that Buffalo, Erie, Pittsburgh, Rochester have no Midwestern influence is a complete lie. They share similar demographics, culture, and accents, etc. In fact these cities all have more in common with Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, even St. Louis than Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, DC, and Boston.
Pittsburgh is 26% Catholic, tied with NYC and Boston as the most Catholic city in America. Not a very Midwestern trait.
Pittsburgh's black population migrated primarily from Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia, whereas midwestern cities drew their Black population from Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee and Arkansas.
Pittsburgh has transit ridership rates higher than any midwestern city not named Chicago.
I could drop you in a working-class white Pittsburgh neighborhood, and you'd swear it was Philly.
There is no way in hell Pittsburgh has more in common with Chicago, Detroit or St Louis than it does with Philadelphia or Baltimore.
Most of Upstate New York is like Pennsylvania. Lots of German heritage, neutral accents, etc. I've been to Ithaca and it reminded me more of Pennsylvania than anywhere in New England. And also saying that Buffalo, Erie, Pittsburgh, Rochester have no Midwestern influence is a complete lie. They share similar demographics, culture, and accents, etc. In fact these cities all have more in common with Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, even St. Louis than Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, DC, and Boston.
Pittsburgh is 26% Catholic, tied with NYC and Boston as the most Catholic city in America. Not a very Midwestern trait.
Chicago has a lot of Catholics though...
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Originally Posted by gladhands
Pittsburgh's black population migrated primarily from Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia, whereas midwestern cities drew their Black population from Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee and Arkansas.
I don't think Pittsburgh received much Black migration from the Carolinas. Probably Virginia early on. But for the most part, it was more or less part of the same migratory tree as Cleveland and Detroit. Buffalo, on the other hand, was a different story.
Using state borders parts of the Great Lakes are in the Northeast but on a whole the the US cities on the Great Lakes are culturally and environmentally Midwestern.
Again, that is not the case. I live within minutes of a Great Lake and I wouldn't consider the area I live in to be "Midwestern".
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