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Old 08-22-2016, 07:26 AM
 
1,291 posts, read 1,127,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeksitter View Post
See, the thing is - it is technically impossible to build an older home. So what can happen in the desirable cities is the older and perhaps ugly housing gets torn down for higher density. Which is the opposite of what you are complaining about in your OP.
This. Lower income, in order to connect with the rest of the economy, need higher-density, transit oriented residences. This doesn't happen letting the invisible hand of the developers' wishes reign supreme.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:59 PM
 
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Below a certain price level, that's true.

But the market can build relatively affordable housing in urban, transit-served areas. You need enough developable property (with room for plenty of height or FAR) in the city to make each parcel reasonably priced. You need to go light on the parking requirements in some areas, and eliminate them entirely in the really central neighborhoods. Some people will be ok with true micro housing vs. roommates or worse, so allow smaller micros. And don't put fees on the stuff you want.
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
122 posts, read 113,129 times
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As I pointed out a week or so ago, the city of Tokyo has a massive population that keeps growing, but has very stable rents. As the OP points out, zoning liberalization is the key.

https://fee.org/articles/why-isnt-re...ut-of-control/
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Old 08-23-2016, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,201 posts, read 10,429,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I think people in the Bay area have a right to decide what kind of development they want in their communities. I would not be surprised if all these "zoning hurts poor people type arguments" are really just fronts for real estate developers wanting to make more money without restrictions.
Most of it comes from the residents themselves, not surprisingly. It's all well and good to fight the "Manhattanization of San Francisco" and have height restrictions in Berkeley, because you want everything to remain like it was 50 years ago, if you're also okay with your city becoming another Paris where only the rich can afford it and everyone else commutes an hour or more to make coffee and fluff pillows.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,927 posts, read 6,889,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Most of it comes from the residents themselves, not surprisingly. It's all well and good to fight the "Manhattanization of San Francisco" and have height restrictions in Berkeley, because you want everything to remain like it was 50 years ago, if you're also okay with your city becoming another Paris where only the rich can afford it and everyone else commutes an hour or more to make coffee and fluff pillows.
Exactly, just look at prohibition...

Alcohol was now illegal, but the demand didn't go away, so between 1919 and 1920, it's price increased 2000% (shots of bourbon went from 15 cents to 3 dollars)
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,443 posts, read 11,944,656 times
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Again, one of the issues with the hypothesis that zoning causes the high costs of "progressive" cities is that Houston excepted, cities in the Sun Belt do have zoning. Certainly the portions of zoning code which result in lowered density - things like parking minimums, setbacks, height restrictions, use restrictions, etc - aren't really determined by political ideology or region of the country. The main difference is that in most "progressive" areas the metropolitan area is split between dozens to hundreds of independent municipalities with local zoning control, whereas in the Sun Belt the core city generally has zoning control over a wide swathe of "suburbia."

One thing which cannot be discounted, however, is the sheer cost to build is higher in the North. While residential construction projects in the north are often non-union (the building trades tends to focus on making sure large commercial jobs are done union, and not focus on homebuilding) builders still need to pay close to union rate if they want to get qualified workers. In contrast in much of the South much of the job has historically been done by (undocumented) Mexican immigrants, which really drops labor costs. Given housing materials themselves aren't expensive any longer, this can really cut the price of the typical detached single-family home. As an example, the reason why houses in the South are typically brick-clad on all four sides now, but in the North the most they have is a brick front facade, is directly related to the labor cost for brick installation being higher in the north.
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Old 08-23-2016, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Kennedy Heights, Ohio. USA
1,828 posts, read 1,499,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormalCarpetRide View Post
As I pointed out a week or so ago, the city of Tokyo has a massive population that keeps growing, but has very stable rents. As the OP points out, zoning liberalization is the key.

https://fee.org/articles/why-isnt-re...ut-of-control/
But remember the Japanese has a different mentality then the Americans. As an homogenous society the Japanese thinks what is better for society than what is better for the individual. Japanese will sacrifice what's in their own selfish best interest if it will benefit Japanese society as a whole so excessive profit making by charging high rent will bring shame on the Japanese individual as compared to the American individual. Japan is one of among the most socialistic nations in the world. Japan has universal health care that strictly regulate medical fees to keep it affordable. The low income in Japan can rely on government subsidies and waived fees for health care. Tokyo has one of the best mass public transportation systems in the world . The Government of Japan massively invest from its public treasury in its mass public transportation infrastructure. Japan's low income has access to an outstanding public transit infrastructure giving them the ability to access better and more income opportunities. All of these gives the low income in Japan a way better chance to escape being stuck in a low income situation.

Last edited by Coseau; 08-23-2016 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 08-23-2016, 08:56 AM
 
3,618 posts, read 1,569,828 times
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The amazing mass transit and very futuristic airports and good infrastructure in so many asian cities show just what a ripoff most of these overpriced american cities truly are. a 900 square foot in seoul is $1370, a 900 square foot in tokyo is around $2000,in taipei its around $1,500, singapore is 2,000. They have very clean ,efficient mass transit with low crime and most societies are far more futuristic than any bloated american city.

In Manhattan and San Francisco you pay 3500-4000 to live in cities with dirty and inefficient mass transit, you land at places like laguardia which are just almost third world and have to deal with tons and tons of homeless, my friend was just bit by a homeless guys dog outside a restaurant in san francisco. . I will say that high prices may also have to do with space, hong kong is just as expensive as NYC and San Francisco because it doesnt have the space.

Many places like Manhattan and san francisco are limited in space, or in the case of San Francisco, relaxing zoning and putting up high rises in a city where U.S. Geological Survey and other scientists show there is a 63% probability of at least one magnitude 6.7 or greater quake striking somewhere in the San Francisco Bay region in the next 30 years would be a huge mistake
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Old 08-23-2016, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Kennedy Heights, Ohio. USA
1,828 posts, read 1,499,064 times
Reputation: 1429
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormalCarpetRide View Post
As I pointed out a week or so ago, the city of Tokyo has a massive population that keeps growing, but has very stable rents. As the OP points out, zoning liberalization is the key.

https://fee.org/articles/why-isnt-re...ut-of-control/
The Japanese do not look at housing structures as an capital asset to invest in that will appreciate in value adding to someone's net worth and source of wealth to be passed down to one's heirs. Housing in Japan is a depreciating asset seen as disposable and not permanent. In WWII most of Japan's housing structures were flattened by American air raids. Twenty percent of 6.0 magnitude earthquakes occur in Japan. In Tokyo some 500,000 homes were lost in the Great Kanto earthquake a century ago . This has contributed to the fundamental feeling within the Japanese scheme of things that nothing is permanent. Add this to the fact that in the Japanese Shinto religion newness is seen as spiritually pure and clean and it is no wonder that an Japanese home fully depreciates its full value in 30 years.

It makes perfect sense that Japan has very liberal zoning regulations because the overwhelming majority of Japanese consumers value newness in housing in the same way Westerners value newness in consumer appliances and automobiles.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,752 posts, read 3,858,504 times
Reputation: 3566
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post

Gantz, New York City has a population over 8 million people? How many more do want them to allow? 15 million, 25 million, 50 million? I think the City is already extremely overpopulated as it is without letting developers run roughshod over the City's neighborhoods carte blanche.
Oh please. I like how when people bring out archaic zoning codes, NIMBYs shout "but what about those historical brownstones blah blah blah". Nobody is touching those neighborhoods, relax. The zoning laws I am talking about are ridiculously low height limits in non-historic neighborhoods next to subway stations, mandated car parking even in areas such as downtown Brooklyn.. where NOBODY drives, zoned industrial areas next to subway, etc. In my area of Brooklyn we have $1-2 million condos 3 blocks from a subway, and then the street where subway is has can recycling warehouses, furniture warehouses, etc because you are not allowed to build residential next to the subway... like wtf. Or in Williamsburg where on some streets you can't build anything higher than 3 stories.... why? As you know, Williamsburg is not a particularly pretty neighborhood and has no good historical architecture.
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