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But those cities offer higher salaries and jobs. This isn't DC, Denver, Seattle, San Fran, Philly, or NYC. Those other cities might also have middle class neighborhoods. We don't.
LOL. Your trolling has become laughable. When you can buy a condo in the most expensive neighborhoods of a city, for less than the national median home price, every neighborhood is a middle-class neighborhood.
You also clearly know nothing about housing prices in big cities.
Definitely visit the West Side Market, and at least a Giant Eagle, a Marc's and an Aldi's in order to gain a quick appreciation of shopping options and prices.
Cleveland is bipolar between downtown with its sports and entertainment districts, and its great cultural and medical center district in the Greater University Circle area. There are robust transit connections between the two, but not necessarily from other neighborhoods and suburbs directly to University Circle (Shaker Hts. and Shaker Square are among the exceptions with strong direct transit connections to both downtown and University Circle).
In any city, definitely check out Google Transit to assess mass transit connections, especially in evenings and weekends, between any proposed residence and locations that you'll likely frequent from that residence.
Cleveland is a great place for summer gardening. Water is plentiful, and sprinkling of gardens (but typically not lawns) is needed during stretches of hot, dry weather in the summer. Growing seasons are lengthening due to global warming, but Lake Erie, which acts as a giant heater in the autumn, already extends the growing season compared to areas further from a Great Lake.
Given your interest in Cleveland and Pittsburgh, one other city perhaps worth considering is Milwaukee. Consider its proximity to Chicago, with its great attractions and amenities.
You can check average weather, both annually and by month, for any city here:
I'm not from there, but something tells me you know nothing about the place because it's a huge city. I used to think like you did, then I spent more time in other areas and found neighborhoods I didn't even know existed and were still in the city limits. Pleasantly surprised.
Even if the OP isn't still curious, the thread seems to have taken on life of its own.
What neighborhoods in Philly might be relevant? I don't know the city that well.
Sub $150k houses in safe areas with large yards and privacy
Well connected to all needs by immediate walkablilty or frequent mass transit
I'd like to look 'em up for future reference myself!
I'm not from there, but something tells me you know nothing about the place because it's a huge city. I used to think like you did, then I spent more time in other areas and found neighborhoods I didn't even know existed and were still in the city limits. Pleasantly surprised.
I've been there to explore the city more than once, but you are right, I don't know it well. Here is what you don't appear to understand, I am not looking for the best city. Philly's a great city, and it'd be great to live there. But I'm looking for the city that meets our needs. I've explored the prices of the homes that meet our needs, and Philly doesn't fit the bill.
Well, this is where I'm at. I've done a good deal of research and I've visited all but Cleveland. I think I need to visit a couple more extensively and do even more research. Thanks to everyone who's given input.
There are many other pluses and minuses, but these are the ones which stand out. They all have great food scenes, sports, and arts. Yes, I know Pittsburgh and Philadelphia have great park systems, but Minneapolis's stands out to me.
1. Minneapolis
+ winter activities, multiple neighborhoods to choose from, park system
- extreme winters (really not sure we can handle this)
2. Pittsburgh
+ scenery/topography, Steelers
- few neighborhoods to choose from
3. Philadelphia
+ best transit system, easy access to other cities
- hot summers, few neighborhoods to choose from, Eagles (sorry)
4. Cleveland - no pluses or minuses, nothing stands out. Still in the running, I guess.
Buffalo - out of the question. Too many negatives.
Chicago - out of the question. No neighborhoods to choose from.
I'm in Philly. Your budget simply will not work in neighborhoods(city or suburbs) that you might want to live in.
I've narrowed it down to Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Really don't think we want to go through the Minneapolis winters, and with the help of this thread, I don't think their mass transit is any better. Plus, I just learned that MN taxes military retirement pay, while OH and PA don't. And Philly just has too many negatives (for us).
I've already stated the things I love about Pittsburgh. The more I learn about Cleveland, the more I like it. For one, there are many more houses to choose from that meet our needs. I also like that it's sort of an underdog city, rising from the ashes. I'm just going to have to visit both cities to decide.
Thanks again to all who gave input. I'll buy you a beer or two if we move to your city.
As I mentioned below I'm in Philly...in fact I'm a native...but I think Pittsburgh is terrific. I'd go for it if I were you!
There are great neighborhoods in Philadelphia ( someone pointed out the NW part of the city) and various suburbs. They're just too expensive for you. Shame because 10 years ago your budget would have worked here in several places.
And, yes, PA does not tax ANY retirement income. I'm retired and it's a major reason I decided to retire in place and not relocate.
Location: Pittsburgh (via Chicago, via Pittsburgh)
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I was born in raised in Pittsburgh (lived there up until 2011), have lived in Chicago since, and have been to Philly and Cleveland many times. I think you have narrowed it down pretty well between PGH and CLE. You and others are correct that while Chicago and Philly are amazing cities with excellent mass transit, the single family homes with decent lot sizes in the city are pretty pricey, and probably out of your desired range (although in these two cities, you can live 100% car free very easily, saving you some money). Despite the hairs everyone likes to split as they argue with each other, Pittsburgh and Cleveland have transit systems that are fairly similar in quality. If I HAD to give it to one city, it would likely be Cleveland since they have rail access to the airport. You can get to the airport from downtown Cleveland in less than 30 minutes on rail, without having to worry about driving, paying for parking at the airport, etc..that is huge in my opinion. Otherwise, I would prefer Pittsburgh over Cleveland, but I am probably a little biased. Cleveland has many great neighborhoods and suburbs that are close to the city limits that pretty much act like city neighborhoods (Lakewood and Cleveland Heights, especially around the Coventry Road/Lake View Cemetery area). Pittsburgh is probably my slight favorite due to its beautiful topography, and the fact I was born and raised there. They are both pretty affordable, with Cleveland having a slight edge. They will both offer areas that provide access to affordable homes with nice lot sizes fairly close to the city. Both have great parks systems. Cleveland has Lake Erie, Pittsburgh has rivers and mountains. Cleveland may have an edge when it comes to areas that fit your criteria with access to DECENT mass transit, because the beautiful areas around Cleveland Heights and University Circle are served by rail. Honestly, even though I PERSONALLY would choose Pittsburgh, I think Cleveland would be a great fit for you. Definitely give Cleveland a visit. I think both will fit your needs fairly well.
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Cleveland
