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Old 08-30-2016, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Yes. Some might argue that parts of the Midwest like downstate Illinois or the MO bootheel are "southern" but one region having southern influence (because no duh, it's a bordering area) doesn't make it southern. It's still the north. I actually noticed a big difference crossing from Oklahoma to Kansas, not in topography, but in architecture and in culture. Just a little north of Wichita there's like almost zero southern influence. The accents are different, pop is used more than coke, there seems to be a different vibe, more two storey houses. Little things like that make a big difference. A lot more of the stereotypical red barns.
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:11 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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I read somewhere that the Northern United States includes the Midwest and the Northeast. Note the word east in Northeast, if the NE was the only part of the North then it would not be necessary to say Northeast just North.

The Northwest states are obviously northern but I think they have far more in common with Western cousins then they do with Northern states in the Midwest and Northeast (lots of open public lands for one) so we usually emphasize them as Western instead of Northern.
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLgasm View Post
Interesting sentiment. Kansas is much more conservative than Missouri.
Yes, I tend to agree with you (though I guess most people in Missouri and Kansas do not...Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana Most Conservative States). But, so are Nebraska, the Dakotas, Wyoming and Montana, Idaho, and Utah, certainly none of which are southern in any way. And there's nothing like the Ozarks or the Bootheel, in any of them, including Kansas. The closest thing to "southern" in Kansas is the former mining towns of the Little Balkans, and they're not very southern.

And there is this, which I know you already are aware of, but I think it remains a pretty good proxy for "southerness":

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Old 08-31-2016, 08:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
Yeah, the Midwest is "The North," because it's obviously not "The South," but here is the thing:

The "North / South" distinction I think means a lot more to Southerners than it does to Northerners.

Northerners don't think of themselves as Northerners....they think of themselves as "Midwesterners," or as from "the East Coast," or as "New Englanders," etc.

The "Northerner" label is sort of a catch-all identity applied to people from "The North" by people that are not from "The North." Therefore, it's kind of arbitrary.

This is probably because there is waaaaay more cultural homogeneity between the Southern states than there is between the "Northern" states (Sorry, not sorry.)
Correct answer. End of thread.
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:31 AM
 
Location: West Tennessee
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The midwest is distinct from the south. The issue is here that certain sections of "midwestern" states (mainly Missouri) are actually a part of the south, not the midwest. Culture doesn't necessarily follow state lines. Covington, Kentucky is no more southern than Steele, Missouri is midwestern, yet if you look at the census definitions they are Southern and Midwestern, respectively.
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Old 08-31-2016, 11:21 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
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Originally Posted by Diff1 View Post
Is being Mid Western synonymous with being Northern?
Yes.
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Old 08-31-2016, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Cbus
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There are specific parts of the Midwest that have "southern flavor." I.e. Southern Ohio, portions of Indiana and a portion of Missouri. From a macro standpoint the Midwest is solidly in the north but if you hone in on specific regions of the Midwest there are some qualities these subregions share with the south.

Here's some historical context:

" Huge numbers of people migrated out of Appalachia. Between 1910 and 1960, millions of Southerners left their home states of Tennessee, Kentucky, the Carolinas, Virginia and West Virginia. A large percentage of those leaving Kentucky, West Virginia, and Tennessee went north for jobs in the industrial sector."

Many West Virginians and Kentuckians (e.g., from Magoffin County) migrated to the industrial cities of Ohio, for jobs in rubber and steel.[18] Industrial towns in Southern Ohio, including Dayton and Cincinnati, were favorites for migrants from Eastern Kentucky because they remained close to home."

In short, The Midwest is in the North but there are certain communities with "southern" influence and or qualities.
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Old 08-31-2016, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Arch City
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Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Yes, I tend to agree with you (though I guess most people in Missouri and Kansas do not...Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana Most Conservative States). But, so are Nebraska, the Dakotas, Wyoming and Montana, Idaho, and Utah, certainly none of which are southern in any way. And there's nothing like the Ozarks or the Bootheel, in any of them, including Kansas. The closest thing to "southern" in Kansas is the former mining towns of the Little Balkans, and they're not very southern.

And there is this, which I know you already are aware of, but I think it remains a pretty good proxy for "southerness":
I think that's a terrible measure of Southernness when it comes to Midwestern states. Yes religion is a Southern influence but Missouri is culturally, linguistically, and apart from religion demographically Northern. German is the dominant ancestry per county in the state, which is characteristic of the rest of the Midwest as well as Pennsylvania and Maryland. The South has very little Germans in most areas. Southern dialect in Missouri is confined to the Southern parts of the state. Missouri isn't Southern by a long shot.
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by U146 View Post
I think that's a terrible measure of Southernness when it comes to Midwestern states. Yes religion is a Southern influence but Missouri is culturally, linguistically, and apart from religion demographically Northern. German is the dominant ancestry per county in the state, which is characteristic of the rest of the Midwest as well as Pennsylvania and Maryland. The South has very little Germans in most areas. Southern dialect in Missouri is confined to the Southern parts of the state. Missouri isn't Southern by a long shot.
I tend to agree about Missouri not being Southern, especially by population. But it is the most "southern" leaning state in the Midwest, bar none. I don't know how a serious observer could argue that. And while I don't think it's predominant religion is a "measure", I do think it's reactionary to discount it as a single (but salient) point in a broad data set. Take for example southern Louisiana. It is an outlier in the predominant religion or the southern United States, and an outlier in the demographics and culture of the South, but it is undeniably Southern. That said, I would entertain an argument that it is the least southern region of the Deep South. In the same way I can confidently assert that Missouri is a Midwestern state, but it is absolutely the most southern one.
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Old 09-01-2016, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
I think that's a terrible measure of Southernness when it comes to Midwestern states. Yes religion is a Southern influence but Missouri is culturally, linguistically, and apart from religion demographically Northern. German is the dominant ancestry per county in the state, which is characteristic of the rest of the Midwest as well as Pennsylvania and Maryland. The South has very little Germans in most areas. Southern dialect in Missouri is confined to the Southern parts of the state. Missouri isn't Southern by a long shot.
The German heritage of Kansas and Missouri (among other Midwestern states) must be very strong. I remember reading the article of that horrible death in Kansas City Schlitterbahn, and so many people mentioned in the article had German surnames, and I mean HARDCORE wienerschnitzel style surnames lol I don't mean Americanised "Miller" "Smith" instead of "Schmidt" no I mean names that are so German, they sound like the name of a kitschy Bavarian pub. I know that in places that are not as German, many of the German Americans changed their surnames to a more pronounceable name, but I guess in heavily German parts of the Midwest, it's such a predominant ethnicity that the original names were unchanged. (Or there wasn't many non-Germans that they married)

Come to think of it, pretty much everyone I personally know that is from Kansas or has Kansas roots (including two roommates, one that used to live with me, another that still does) has German heritage or German surnames.

However the south has lots of Germans too, though, especially Texas. That's one thing Texas shares with its Midwestern plains neighbours further north is a large amount of central European influence, particularly German and Czech.
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