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Old 10-06-2016, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Ohio, USA
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Mostly with Missouri and Kansas both being arguable. There's also Southern influence on the bottom portions of a few of the unarguably Northern states in both the Midwest and Northeast.
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:30 PM
 
Location: IN
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Originally Posted by CurlyFries View Post
Mostly with Missouri and Kansas both being arguable. There's also Southern influence on the bottom portions of a few of the unarguably Northern states in both the Midwest and Northeast.
Based on my experience, one could make the argument that even Bates or rural Cass counties south of the Kansas City metro area feel similar to rural areas of KY based on built environment, landscape, ancestry, religious affiliation, etc.
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Ohio, USA
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Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Based on my experience, one could make the argument that even Bates or rural Cass counties south of the Kansas City metro area feel similar to rural areas of KY based on built environment, landscape, ancestry, religious affiliation, etc.
I was talking more about states like Ohio and Pennsylvania on the second part of my other post. I think Missouri would be considered a Southern state instead of a Midwestern state if it's northern border didn't stretch farther north than Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
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Old 10-07-2016, 01:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
The German heritage of Kansas and Missouri (among other Midwestern states) must be very strong. I remember reading the article of that horrible death in Kansas City Schlitterbahn, and so many people mentioned in the article had German surnames, and I mean HARDCORE wienerschnitzel style surnames lol I don't mean Americanised "Miller" "Smith" instead of "Schmidt" no I mean names that are so German, they sound like the name of a kitschy Bavarian pub. I know that in places that are not as German, many of the German Americans changed their surnames to a more pronounceable name, but I guess in heavily German parts of the Midwest, it's such a predominant ethnicity that the original names were unchanged. (Or there wasn't many non-Germans that they married)

Come to think of it, pretty much everyone I personally know that is from Kansas or has Kansas roots (including two roommates, one that used to live with me, another that still does) has German heritage or German surnames.

However the south has lots of Germans too, though, especially Texas. That's one thing Texas shares with its Midwestern plains neighbours further north is a large amount of central European influence, particularly German and Czech.
That's true. Kansas has basically had 2 main waves of immigration outside the black exodus from the South. In the fight for statehood, most immigrants to Kansas were Americans from New England or farther up north. My family came to Kansas in the 1860s from Wisconsin heeding the Republican call to keep out the Southern influence at any cost (the battle for statehood, bleeding Kansas). My family is mostly English, with a little bit of German, but we have a very English name. Where we live in eastern Kansas many of the early settlers seemed to be English and Scottish.

Later on Kansas would get a wave of German immigrants, mostly to western and central Kansas, but really to all parts of Kansas (in modern time they have spread out, especially to Kansas City). The Germans split into two groups, the native Germans and the Volgan Germans. From my personal experiences the Volgans seems to have kept a lot more of their culture.

Missouri is Midwestern, but Kansas shares a cultural history more with the north, through its German ties and many early settlers came from places like Chicago and New England.

My grandfather hated southern culture and what the south did, and I think attitudes like that were prevelant for a long time after the civil war, probably more so then elsewhere in the US and that really kept southern culture at bay. I mean just look at that religion map of the US, there is a incredibly distinct border between Kansas and Missouri/Oklahoma. My grandfather even hated going to Missouri. He loved the Royals, so we would have to go to their games occasionally, but that was the only reason to cross the border.

I'm not trying to imply that Missouri is not part of the north, it is, but it's probably the least "northern" state.
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Old 10-07-2016, 04:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SPonteKC View Post
Kansas is very much northern. Missouri less so.
I know someone from North Dakota who moved to Wichita. Kansas seemed very Southern to him. He imitated Kansas people in a Southern accent saying "you're not from around here...are you?".
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Old 10-07-2016, 05:46 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Originally Posted by SPonteKC View Post
I tend to agree about Missouri not being Southern, especially by population. But it is the most "southern" leaning state in the Midwest, bar none. I don't know how a serious observer could argue that. And while I don't think it's predominant religion is a "measure", I do think it's reactionary to discount it as a single (but salient) point in a broad data set. Take for example southern Louisiana. It is an outlier in the predominant religion or the southern United States, and an outlier in the demographics and culture of the South, but it is undeniably Southern. That said, I would entertain an argument that it is the least southern region of the Deep South. In the same way I can confidently assert that Missouri is a Midwestern state, but it is absolutely the most southern one.
I agree with this.

Interestingly during the Civil War there was a chance that Missouri might join with the South. The fact that Missouri did not has to do a lot with Union officer, Nathaniel Lyon. Lyon was an aggressive commander, sometimes compared to an early version of US Grant or even the northern version of Stonewall Jackson. Had he not been killed so early in the war, the Civil War may have ended sooner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Lyon

If Missouri left the Union and joined the South, it might change the way we view the state even today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_secession (Missouri Secession)
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
I know someone from North Dakota who moved to Wichita. Kansas seemed very Southern to him. He imitated Kansas people in a Southern accent saying "you're not from around here...are you?".
North Dakota is far more of an outlier in the cultural, sociological and linguistic culture of the Midwest than Kansas is.

You should tell him to imitate the accent all the time, so he doesn't sound like a character from Fargo.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The overall southern feel stretches further north in Missouri compared to Kansas based on my experience. You drive south of KC, MO and it is very much like the most areas of the South overall within a few dozen miles.
Here we finally agree.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
That's true. Kansas has basically had 2 main waves of immigration outside the black exodus from the South. In the fight for statehood, most immigrants to Kansas were Americans from New England or farther up north. My family came to Kansas in the 1860s from Wisconsin heeding the Republican call to keep out the Southern influence at any cost (the battle for statehood, bleeding Kansas). My family is mostly English, with a little bit of German, but we have a very English name. Where we live in eastern Kansas many of the early settlers seemed to be English and Scottish.

Later on Kansas would get a wave of German immigrants, mostly to western and central Kansas, but really to all parts of Kansas (in modern time they have spread out, especially to Kansas City). The Germans split into two groups, the native Germans and the Volgan Germans. From my personal experiences the Volgans seems to have kept a lot more of their culture.

Missouri is Midwestern, but Kansas shares a cultural history more with the north, through its German ties and many early settlers came from places like Chicago and New England.

My grandfather hated southern culture and what the south did, and I think attitudes like that were prevelant for a long time after the civil war, probably more so then elsewhere in the US and that really kept southern culture at bay. I mean just look at that religion map of the US, there is a incredibly distinct border between Kansas and Missouri/Oklahoma. My grandfather even hated going to Missouri. He loved the Royals, so we would have to go to their games occasionally, but that was the only reason to cross the border.

I'm not trying to imply that Missouri is not part of the north, it is, but it's probably the least "northern" state.
Regarding German ancestry/Midwesternness:



And, yes, there is a strong, important cultural heritage in Kansas of aggressive anti-southerness that remains potent and widespread to this day. Probably more so than any other state in the US.
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Old 10-07-2016, 09:09 AM
 
436 posts, read 332,068 times
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Originally Posted by SPonteKC View Post
North Dakota is far more of an outlier in the cultural, sociological and linguistic culture of the Midwest than Kansas is.

You should tell him to imitate the accent all the time, so he doesn't sound like a character from Fargo.
Probably helped him identify the southern in the language more than those accustomed to it.
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