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View Poll Results: Most Northern state?
Maine 21 14.09%
Vermont 8 5.37%
New Hampshire 0 0%
Massachusetts 37 24.83%
Rhode Island 0 0%
Connecticut 4 2.68%
New York 29 19.46%
Michigan 3 2.01%
Wisconsin 2 1.34%
Minnesota 41 27.52%
North Dakota 3 2.01%
South Dakota 0 0%
Nebraska 1 0.67%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-23-2016, 03:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It doesn't make it clearer. The abolitionist movement was centered in New England and then spread to other parts of the country. Philadelphia also "had a lot of abolitionist activity." That doesn't mean it was ideological epicenter of the movement.

If the abolitionist movement were the Mafia, then New England would have been the Commission.
I don't know, man. Even if we say New England, that doesn't necessarily mean Massachusetts is strictly the epicenter of the movement. Connecticut may make for a better argument.


Then, you have the Women's Rights Movement that also was going pretty strong around the same time, which also had a strong presence in NY.
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Old 09-23-2016, 03:24 PM
 
56,726 posts, read 81,038,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
True. Pennsylvania wasn't really Dutch though, was it? Wasn't it mostly German and English?
Yes, it was mostly German and English. More on the origin of Yankee: The American Heritage® Dictionary Blog
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Old 09-23-2016, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,269 posts, read 26,273,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I don't know, man. Even if we say New England, that doesn't necessarily mean Massachusetts is strictly the epicenter of the movement. Connecticut may make for a better argument.
Yeah, except for this one part.

Quote:
Those who called for an immediate end to slavery, called abolitionists, were centered in New England, especially in Massachusetts, and considered by many to be radical and dangerous in their political views.
Quote:
In the late 1820s, the national antislavery movement was centered in Boston.
Quote:
In the spring of 1840 the abolitionist movement split itself into two camps. One headed by Garrison, had its nominal headquarters in New York but was centered in Massachusetts with pockets in Pennsylvania and a lonely outpost or two in Ohio.
Quote:
By 1830, Boston had become the center of America's fledgling anti-slavery movement.
Quote:
Massachusetts was at the center of the abolitionist movement from its inception.
Quote:
What began in late-eighteenth-century Pennsylvania as an elite movement espousing gradual legal reform began to change in the 1820s as black activists, female reformers, and nonelite whites pushed their way into the antislavery movement. Centered in Massachusetts, these new reformers demanded immediate emancipation, and they revolutionized abolitionist strategies and tactics.
Seems pretty unambiguous to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Then, you have the Women's Rights Movement that also was going pretty strong around the same time, which also had a strong presence in NY.
Okay. We were talking about the abolitionist movement.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 09-23-2016 at 03:45 PM..
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Old 09-23-2016, 03:43 PM
 
56,726 posts, read 81,038,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Yeah, except for this one part.









Seems pretty unambiguous to me.



Okay. We were talking about the abolitionist movement.
Yet, C.G. Finney was spreading his anti-slavery message along with his evangelism in the mid 1820's in Upstate NY. So, we are talking about roughly the same time frame.

As for Women's Rights, I mention that due to that work being in a similar vein and was occurring around the same time.
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Old 09-23-2016, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Yet, C.G. Finney was spreading his anti-slavery message along with his evangelism in the mid 1820's in Upstate NY. So, we are talking about roughly the same time frame.
And Lady B was spitting her rhymes in Philadelphia in the 1970s. Yet the Bronx is credited as the epicenter of hip hop.
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Old 09-23-2016, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,532 posts, read 2,500,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
I went with Minnesota. Scandinavians, hockey, lakes, ice fishing, liberal politics, northernmost point in the continental US. It screams NORTHERN.
Not to mention that the state's official motto, emblazoned on the state flag, is L'Étoile du Nord (The Star of the North).
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Old 09-23-2016, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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A summary of E. Digby Baltzell's Puritan Boston and Quaker Philadelphia.

Quote:
In medicine, Philadelphia took the lead early, producing more physicians and practitioners than Boston did, but Harvard can claim more deans, professors in medical schools, and specialists in advanced knowledge. In politics, there is no contest—Boston was the center of the anti-slavery movement as well as of movements for education, prison, and temperance reform, and Massachusetts gave the nation first families like the Adamses, the Lodges, and the Kennedys, while the best Philadelphia could come up with was the Kelly clan (of whom Princess Grace of Hollywood and Monaco is the most illustrious member).
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/a...igby-baltzell/
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Old 09-23-2016, 04:00 PM
 
56,726 posts, read 81,038,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
And Lady B was spitting her rhymes in Philadelphia in the 1970s. Yet the Bronx is credited as the epicenter of hip hop.
Yet the difference is that Finney helped to convert those that were to be a part of the movement: Models for Reformation: The Christian Abolitionists*(1800s) — The Forerunner

It may be a matter of viewing the movement from a political view versus a moralistic/"religious" view, in terms of influence and origins.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-23-2016 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 09-23-2016, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,269 posts, read 26,273,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Yet the difference is that Finney helped to convert those that were to be a part of the movement: Models for Reformation: The Christian Abolitionists*(1800s) — The Forerunner
Okay. I still haven't seen any source that casts doubt on the following.

Quote:
In the late 1820s, the national antislavery movement was centered in Boston.
By your standard, Philadelphia could be considered the "center of the abolitionist movement" since Quakers constituted the first organized resistance to slavery in the American colonies. But it wasn't. Or at least it wasn't in the 19th Century. Abolitionism became a political movement though Garrison and the founding of the American Anti-Slavery Society.

Quote:
Garrison is sometimes credited with founding the abolitionist movement in America in the 1830s; however, as abolitionist societies existed in the late 1700s in both the North and the South, it is more accurate to say that Garrison first popularized a more radical abolitionist stance.
Underground Railroad

It wasn't until Garrison that ASS chapters began to crop up all over the Northeast. That's likely why most of the South's ire was directed towards Yankees. For example, Preston Brooks of South Carolina whipping Charles Sumner of Massachusetts on the floor of the Senate. Or this excerpt from Solomon Northup's 12 Years a Slave.

"If you lived up among the Yankees in New-England," said Epps, "I expect you'd be one of them cursed fanatics that know more than the constitution, and go about peddling clocks and coaxing _________ to run away."

Solomon Northup. Twelve Years a Slave: Narrative ofSolomon Northup, a Citizen of New-York, Kidnapped in Washington City in1841, and Rescued in 1853.

And I doubt it gets any more clear than this.

"While New Englanders led the call for the abolition of slavery, much of our wealth derived from slavery."
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Old 09-23-2016, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,269 posts, read 26,273,936 times
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New York didn't have more freemen than slaves until the 1810 Census.

Slave, Free Black, and White Population, 1780-1830

In 1820, 25.6% of New York's Black population was enslaved. 0.7% of Pennsylvania's Black population was enslaved. Slavery had been ruled unconstitutional in Massachusetts in 1783.

Quote:
New England was the hotbed of the anti-slavery movement. Many northeasterners still heartily embraced the spirit of liberty, and less than a century after the Declaration of Independence decreed that all men were created equal, Boston was undeniably Ground Zero for abolitionists.
https://books.google.com/books?id=CI...vement&f=false

Last edited by BajanYankee; 09-23-2016 at 04:44 PM..
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