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View Poll Results: Most Northern state?
Maine 21 14.09%
Vermont 8 5.37%
New Hampshire 0 0%
Massachusetts 37 24.83%
Rhode Island 0 0%
Connecticut 4 2.68%
New York 29 19.46%
Michigan 3 2.01%
Wisconsin 2 1.34%
Minnesota 41 27.52%
North Dakota 3 2.01%
South Dakota 0 0%
Nebraska 1 0.67%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-26-2018, 02:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
You are right about who settled the Midwest, clearly New England and New York folks are the original settlers in many upper Midwest states. (In some places small numbers of French were the original settlers) However true that may be you are discounting or unaware of a more influential part of the development of the Midwest, the massive influx of German and Scandinavian immigrants to that region in the mid 19th century. Those immigrants overwhelmed the small group of northeastern people who settled the place in short order since they arrived in much larger numbers. The culture, people and accent of the Midwest is the result of these German and Scandinavian immigrants, the Yankee culture of those original settlers long extinguished in all ways but the remaining place names they brought to the region. There is a reason some of the best beer in the nation can still be found in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan and that is thanks to its Germanic heritage. Also one needs to look no further than the last names of many people who live in that region to see that I am correct.
The accents of 0 Midwestern people are German/Scandinavian influenced unless they are immigrants themselves. Midwestern accents are grouped with both Midland (Philly/ Baltimore), and Northern (NYC/Boston) since those settlers took English to the region and not Germanic people.

There is no significant Germanic accent feature in any Midwest dialect. There isn't research on this nor can any aspect of Midwest speech be traced to German/Nordic languages.

On the subject of accents, most Midwest dialects are extensions of Northeastern ones. Michiganders don't sound too different from Western New England. Yinzer speech isn't horribly alien in Cincinnati. Dialect categories put Northeast and Midwest categories as overlapping. Even Northeast Pennsylvania sounds similar to Upper Midwestern isolated dialects (huge Irish population in Scranton may have to do with this).

And are you really implying that the Northeast didn't get those immigrants? Pennsylvania and New York have a LOT of Germanic people. Pennsylvania Dutch, Germans in New York, the Dutch in New York, and the Swedes in the Delaware Valley. Just LOL @ thinking is the only Germanic region of the country. Germanic peoples settled ALL OVER the US.

And how about the fact we got the same waves of Italians, Poles, Irish, and Jews? You know little of the Midwest my friend. The Great Lakes have the same White ethnic groups that the Mid-Atlantic and New England have (except we have Finns and you guys have Portuguese). Other than that we have a lot of the same surnames too. You make it seem like the Midwest is little Bavaria or something. Even Cincinnati could fit in the Northeast before it fits in any place Northern European. We are the same "brand" of Americans.

Quote:
Another group to consider in the Midwest is the 20th century southerners who migrated to Midwestern cities like Detroit and Chicago. Hard to forget or ignore thier influences either, as in some places they moved in such large numbers that most people in metros like Detroit have some connection to the South. It’s hard not to noticed that the industrial cities in the Midwest are a bit different than the surrounding rural areas and this is a possible explanation why.
The industrial cities are different due to urban vs rural culture. Also the industrial cities are less Germanic and Anglo influenced. They have more Southern and Eastern Europeans. In Chicago you find many Poles and in Illinois proper you don't.

Southerners migrated everywhere North. Don't act like the 95 corridor was an exception. New York's Black population is 1/3 West Indian/African which means most Black New Yorkers still came from the South.

Quote:

I’m not sure why you think my opinion is “weird or minority” when you look at the reality of German immigration in the Midwest being absolute historical fact. I believe it is also true that the Midwest is different and distinct from the northeast in a way that makes it hard to identify the North in a cultural sense the way people do with the South. Outside of the division of civil war era America you will find little uniting the Midwest and the northeast.
Read above. You know little Northeast history if you think Germanic peoples didn't make significant impact there. Philly alone has a good amount of Germanic ancestry in their White population. Pennsylvania as a whole does too as well as New York. But hey history is on your side I suppose. After all we in the Midwest even talk with German accents apparently.

Just lol @ the last idea too. Cincinnati where I am based out of has a heavy German population (mixed with English and Irish) and the accents here sound more like Philadelphia than they do like Munich. Just lol @ your ideas

Quote:
Also I have lived in Michigan before and I have traveled around this nation extensively. My opinions on this matter are based on my experiences in both regions and from my knowledge of history.
Then you've learned little
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:12 PM
 
240 posts, read 118,364 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
You know I'm from Florida, right? I went to the beach several times every summer. Why the hell would we NOT go to the beach? Honestly the beach is like the only thing that doesn't suck in Florida. Our beaches are awesome. Californians go to the beach too. You don't know what you're talking about.
You may have, but most Floridians do not go to the beach. The people I know in Florida maybe go two or three times a year when they could literally go any day. I know many people in Florida who never go to the beach. They choose not to. Californians are the same way. Maybe they go once during the summer, but they could go in the winter (in SoCal). They choose not to. It is not a bad thing, just the truth.
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,523 posts, read 7,475,821 times
Reputation: 10928
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
The accents of 0 Midwestern people are German/Scandinavian influenced unless they are immigrants themselves. Midwestern accents are grouped with both Midland (Philly/ Baltimore), and Northern (NYC/Boston) since those settlers took English to the region and not Germanic people.

There is no significant Germanic accent feature in any Midwest dialect. There isn't research on this nor can any aspect of Midwest speech be traced to German/Nordic languages.

On the subject of accents, most Midwest dialects are extensions of Northeastern ones. Michiganders don't sound too different from Western New England. Yinzer speech isn't horribly alien in Cincinnati. Dialect categories put Northeast and Midwest categories as overlapping. Even Northeast Pennsylvania sounds similar to Upper Midwestern isolated dialects (huge Irish population in Scranton may have to do with this).

And are you really implying that the Northeast didn't get those immigrants? Pennsylvania and New York have a LOT of Germanic people. Pennsylvania Dutch, Germans in New York, the Dutch in New York, and the Swedes in the Delaware Valley. Just LOL @ thinking is the only Germanic region of the country. Germanic peoples settled ALL OVER the US.

And how about the fact we got the same waves of Italians, Poles, Irish, and Jews? You know little of the Midwest my friend. The Great Lakes have the same White ethnic groups that the Mid-Atlantic and New England have (except we have Finns and you guys have Portuguese). Other than that we have a lot of the same surnames too. You make it seem like the Midwest is little Bavaria or something. Even Cincinnati could fit in the Northeast before it fits in any place Northern European. We are the same "brand" of Americans.



The industrial cities are different due to urban vs rural culture. Also the industrial cities are less Germanic and Anglo influenced. They have more Southern and Eastern Europeans. In Chicago you find many Poles and in Illinois proper you don't.

Southerners migrated everywhere North. Don't act like the 95 corridor was an exception. New York's Black population is 1/3 West Indian/African which means most Black New Yorkers still came from the South.



Read above. You know little Northeast history if you think Germanic peoples didn't make significant impact there. Philly alone has a good amount of Germanic ancestry in their White population. Pennsylvania as a whole does too as well as New York. But hey history is on your side I suppose. After all we in the Midwest even talk with German accents apparently.

Just lol @ the last idea too. Cincinnati where I am based out of has a heavy German population (mixed with English and Irish) and the accents here sound more like Philadelphia than they do like Munich. Just lol @ your ideas



Then you've learned little
Ok I’m done with this. If you think Grand Rapids or Green Bay is little more than Massachusetts west then good for you, you are entitled to believe as you wish.
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Chibostoncaliseattle
2,090 posts, read 1,110,414 times
Reputation: 1854
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
The accents of 0 Midwestern people are German/Scandinavian influenced unless they are immigrants themselves. Midwestern accents are grouped with both Midland (Philly/ Baltimore), and Northern (NYC/Boston) since those settlers took English to the region and not Germanic people.

There is no significant Germanic accent feature in any Midwest dialect. There isn't research on this nor can any aspect of Midwest speech be traced to German/Nordic languages.

On the subject of accents, most Midwest dialects are extensions of Northeastern ones. Michiganders don't sound too different from Western New England. Yinzer speech isn't horribly alien in Cincinnati. Dialect categories put Northeast and Midwest categories as overlapping. Even Northeast Pennsylvania sounds similar to Upper Midwestern isolated dialects (huge Irish population in Scranton may have to do with this).

And are you really implying that the Northeast didn't get those immigrants? Pennsylvania and New York have a LOT of Germanic people. Pennsylvania Dutch, Germans in New York, the Dutch in New York, and the Swedes in the Delaware Valley. Just LOL @ thinking is the only Germanic region of the country. Germanic peoples settled ALL OVER the US.

And how about the fact we got the same waves of Italians, Poles, Irish, and Jews? You know little of the Midwest my friend. The Great Lakes have the same White ethnic groups that the Mid-Atlantic and New England have (except we have Finns and you guys have Portuguese). Other than that we have a lot of the same surnames too. You make it seem like the Midwest is little Bavaria or something. Even Cincinnati could fit in the Northeast before it fits in any place Northern European. We are the same "brand" of Americans.



The industrial cities are different due to urban vs rural culture. Also the industrial cities are less Germanic and Anglo influenced. They have more Southern and Eastern Europeans. In Chicago you find many Poles and in Illinois proper you don't.

Southerners migrated everywhere North. Don't act like the 95 corridor was an exception. New York's Black population is 1/3 West Indian/African which means most Black New Yorkers still came from the South.



Read above. You know little Northeast history if you think Germanic peoples didn't make significant impact there. Philly alone has a good amount of Germanic ancestry in their White population. Pennsylvania as a whole does too as well as New York. But hey history is on your side I suppose. After all we in the Midwest even talk with German accents apparently.

Just lol @ the last idea too. Cincinnati where I am based out of has a heavy German population (mixed with English and Irish) and the accents here sound more like Philadelphia than they do like Munich. Just lol @ your ideas



Then you've learned little
Expand that to upstate, and you're on to something. Folks from Buffalo sound eerily similar to the local dialect in Illinois. But, yea.. Western CT/MA/VT accents don't sound anything like the midwest that I grew up in.

Talk to someone in St. Clair Shores in MI or Beverly in IL. Very different from eachother, and completely different than someone from Northampton, MA.

The rest of your points seem valid.
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:42 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,854,830 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119 View Post
Expand that to upstate, and you're on to something. Folks from Buffalo sound eerily similar to the local dialect in Illinois. But, yea.. Western CT/MA/VT accents don't sound anything like the midwest that I grew up in.

Talk to someone in St. Clair Shores in MI or Beverly in IL. Very different from eachother, and completely different than someone from Northampton, MA.

The rest of your points seem valid.
The categories they are grouped in aren't far apart. Northern accents have Northern Cities Vowel Shift as far East as New England. Not complete shifting but present regardless. Northern accents also share many identical long vowels.

The variances are literally minimal. If someone tried listing differences they would have less than similarities.

I guess people in New England do sound weird in terms of using less vowels and merging cot with caught. But other than that their English and my own are almost identical (even with rhoticity accounted)
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:50 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,854,830 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Ok I’m done with this. If you think Grand Rapids or Green Bay is little more than Massachusetts west then good for you, you are entitled to believe as you wish.
Sure we can not address many points. But I would make better comparisons than that. Midwestern "Northeastern" cities are like Cleveland (New England vibe), Cincinnati (Philly/Baltimore vibe), Chicago (can fit most anywhere in the Northeast), and St. Louis (lot like Philly). As far as Michigan? Well Grand Rapids truthfully has no Northeast equivalent but it doesn't even have a Midwest equivalent either since no other Midwest city was so influenced by the Dutch. Detroit otoh could be in Upstate New York and go unnoticed.

We lack mountains but our people aren't too different.
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Old 01-26-2018, 05:14 PM
 
350 posts, read 609,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
However true that may be you are discounting or unaware of a more influential part of the development of the Midwest, the massive influx of German and Scandinavian immigrants to that region in the mid 19th century. The culture, people and accent of the Midwest is the result of these German and Scandinavian immigrants
German influence I can understand but for Scandinavian, except for the Upper Midwest, there are not many in other midwestern states like OH,IN, IL or MO.
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Old 01-26-2018, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,523 posts, read 7,475,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash XY View Post
German influence I can understand but for Scandinavian, except for the Upper Midwest, there are not many in other midwestern states like OH,IN, IL or MO.
Yes I should have been more specific, the Scandinavian is concentrated in parts of the upper Midwest, especially Minnesota and the upper parts of Michigan and Wisconsin. German ethnicity is widely distributed through much of the Midwest however.
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Old 01-26-2018, 05:37 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,854,830 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Yes I should have been more specific, the Scandinavian is concentrated in parts of the upper Midwest, especially Minnesota and the upper parts of Michigan and Wisconsin. German ethnicity is widely distributed through much of the Midwest however.
And the Northeast.

German Americans are the largest ethnic group in the country. They are everywhere save New England.
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Old 01-26-2018, 06:08 PM
BMI
 
Location: Ontario
7,266 posts, read 4,516,669 times
Reputation: 5631
Well living in Canada....from my perspective...

5 states on the list shoudn’t even be on it...
all are too far south, don’t border Canada....

Nebraska ...no way Jose...three states from the Canadian border
South Dakota...nope...not most northern ...North Dakota beats it
Massachusetts....too mild for sure....
Connecticut ...south of Massachusetts....not northern enough
Rhode Island ...little cutie but to southern

The other 8 states all could be contenders ...
Maine is good but it has that southern milder coast around Portland.
Wisconsin is good too but doesn’t border Canada
Michigan has the quintessentially northern UP but mild SE Detroit area.
New York is pretty good, borders Ontario and Quebec but has subtropical NYC, too bad.
Vermont is very good, feels northern to me.
New Hampshire is similar to VT but has a tiny mild coast.
North Dakota is very cold in winter and borders Saskachewan and Manitoba.
Minnesota also a strong contender...far south of the state maybe not northern-like enough.

Vermont, North Dakota, Maine, Minnesota ....top 4,
Minnesota wins probably for being really cold and for having that north woods look
along border with Ontario.

Last edited by BMI; 01-26-2018 at 06:38 PM..
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