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View Poll Results: Most Northern state?
Maine 21 14.09%
Vermont 8 5.37%
New Hampshire 0 0%
Massachusetts 37 24.83%
Rhode Island 0 0%
Connecticut 4 2.68%
New York 29 19.46%
Michigan 3 2.01%
Wisconsin 2 1.34%
Minnesota 41 27.52%
North Dakota 3 2.01%
South Dakota 0 0%
Nebraska 1 0.67%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-03-2018, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,053 posts, read 3,377,056 times
Reputation: 7690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Addams View Post
BadgerFilms, I thoroughly enjoy watching you hype your new home state. Ghengis hasn't been pulling their weight lately and it's nice to see someone pick up the slack.

Keep it up!
Hey now, I have sacrificed a lot to come up here, I think I am entitled to a little hyping! I love this damn place, and yes it's very northern! Don't believe me? Just feel the damn wind!!!
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,053 posts, read 3,377,056 times
Reputation: 7690
Quote:
Originally Posted by geographybee View Post
My northern standards include:
Large, populous, educated city
Hilly country (farming or not)
Historical architecture
Liberal politics
Abundance of wealth
Solid Public transportation
Good good (particularly Italian food)
Large population of ethnic whites
Mild or colder weather

Based on this criteria, NYC is the heart of Northern identity. Boston is the heart of New England, Philly anchors the Mod-Atlantic, and DC anchors the Upper South and Lower Mid-Atlantic. NYC blends the New England and Mid-Atlantic culture to create a mix of both Northern cultures. It also best embodies the criteria above, which, IMP, are what come to mind when most Americans think of the North.
Sure I think a lot of those things are typically "northern" though I don't see why Italian food is that important? That's an east coast bias. Plus the South has better food (and more variety) hands down. I would add pine trees, giant lakes which freeze in winter, moose and deer in forests, lots of birches and maple trees. NY state is full of that as well but NYC? Northern yes but too eastern and also way too big. There's lots of poverty in the north it may not be to the levels of Mississippi but it's there. Look up Kiryas Joel.
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities (StP)
3,017 posts, read 1,869,148 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Hey now, I have sacrificed a lot to come up here, I think I am entitled to a little hyping! I love this damn place, and yes it's very northern! Don't believe me? Just feel the damn wind!!!
Yeah the wind is what gets ya. Today for instance is -3 with no wind, and it's wonderful.
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:35 AM
 
9,383 posts, read 9,529,334 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Hey now, I have sacrificed a lot to come up here, I think I am entitled to a little hyping! I love this damn place, and yes it's very northern! Don't believe me? Just feel the damn wind!!!
Texas is further South than South Carolina but SC is much more southern than Texas. It's how it is the culture of the North andSouth are defined by the East Coast states and they slowly bleed into "the West" and by the time you get to the West Coast the difference between North and South is very small compared to the East.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:20 AM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,839,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Texas is further South than South Carolina but SC is much more southern than Texas. It's how it is the culture of the North andSouth are defined by the East Coast states and they slowly bleed into "the West" and by the time you get to the West Coast the difference between North and South is very small compared to the East.
But a place like the Delta is stereotypically called "the most Southern place on Earth" so how does the whole East Coast thing work there?

Also one of the reasons Texas isn't as "Southern" as South Carolina is its Mexican history. But the Midwest compared to the Northeast didn't have that. Everyone who settled the Midwest was American and from the Northeast.

It doesn't make the Midwest any less Northern.

Also, culturally the West isn't biased between North and South because historically the settlers of the West were also from the Northeast and the Midwest, with much less influence from the South. The Southern influence is still seen in places like Bakersfield however.

I understand the respective cultures originated in the colonies. However just like it is ridiculous to think Mississippi is less Southern than South Carolina it also is ridiculous to think Minnesota is less Northern than Massachusetts.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:04 PM
 
9,383 posts, read 9,529,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
But a place like the Delta is stereotypically called "the most Southern place on Earth" so how does the whole East Coast thing work there?

Also one of the reasons Texas isn't as "Southern" as South Carolina is its Mexican history. But the Midwest compared to the Northeast didn't have that. Everyone who settled the Midwest was American and from the Northeast.

It doesn't make the Midwest any less Northern.

Also, culturally the West isn't biased between North and South because historically the settlers of the West were also from the Northeast and the Midwest, with much less influence from the South. The Southern influence is still seen in places like Bakersfield however.

I understand the respective cultures originated in the colonies. However just like it is ridiculous to think Mississippi is less Southern than South Carolina it also is ridiculous to think Minnesota is less Northern than Massachusetts.
There is a huge difference between the demographic makeup of Massachusetts and Minnesota. They aren't the same peoples. Largely Northern Europeans settled in Minnesota and largely Southern Europeans and Irish settled in New England.

The difference between Texas and the Deep South has everything to do with Climate, it was totally unsuitable for large scale plantation agriculture like further east so it developed differently.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:46 PM
 
240 posts, read 117,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Sure I think a lot of those things are typically "northern" though I don't see why Italian food is that important? That's an east coast bias. Plus the South has better food (and more variety) hands down. I would add pine trees, giant lakes which freeze in winter, moose and deer in forests, lots of birches and maple trees. NY state is full of that as well but NYC? Northern yes but too eastern and also way too big. There's lots of poverty in the north it may not be to the levels of Mississippi but it's there. Look up Kiryas Joel.
Italian food is important because it is a stereotype of the North to have good food, especially Italian. Also, the South does not have better food than the Nroth. The North can offer much more variety, and more ethnic cuisines. I agree that Southern food is delicious, but the North has better fine dining, Chinese, and Italian. I understand that there is lots of poverty in the North, but there is way more in the South. There is also way more wealth in the North compared to the South.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:50 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,839,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
There is a huge difference between the demographic makeup of Massachusetts and Minnesota. They aren't the same peoples. Largely Northern Europeans settled in Minnesota and largely Southern Europeans and Irish settled in New England.

The difference between Texas and the Deep South has everything to do with Climate, it was totally unsuitable for large scale plantation agriculture like further east so it developed differently.
Demographically neither Massachusetts nor Minnesota are "Yankee" since the English ancestry in both states is a minority. So I am not sure how having more Irish/Italians makes a place more Northern than having more Germans/Norwegians. How is any of this relevant to determining how Northern a place is?

How does Minnesota being more Germanic make it less Northern than Massachusetts which is more mixed? I don't get where you are going with this. Today, the demographics of each state are low on actual English ancestry anyway.

I understand the Texas argument but you didn't address my point about Mississippi which is arguably one of the most Southern places and isn't on the Coast nor is it an original part of the 13 colonies.

So again, what makes Minnesota less Northern than Massachusetts? Less Italians? What? Many of these groups weren't even really as prominent around the time the North/South identities were drawn anyway.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:54 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,839,346 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by geographybee View Post
Italian food is important because it is a stereotype of the North to have good food, especially Italian. Also, the South does not have better food than the Nroth. The North can offer much more variety, and more ethnic cuisines. I agree that Southern food is delicious, but the North has better fine dining, Chinese, and Italian. I understand that there is lots of poverty in the North, but there is way more in the South. There is also way more wealth in the North compared to the South.
A stereotype to who? Your own perception? I don't know anyone that stereotypes the North as having better food. Most certainly not Southerners. Northerners believing one thing about themselves isn't exactly a stereotype.

And again, are Italians a magical determinant of Northern identity? What do you make of the fact the mob had a very strong presence in New Orleans?
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:09 PM
 
9,383 posts, read 9,529,334 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Demographically neither Massachusetts nor Minnesota are "Yankee" since the English ancestry in both states is a minority. So I am not sure how having more Irish/Italians makes a place more Northern than having more Germans/Norwegians. How is any of this relevant to determining how Northern a place is?

How does Minnesota being more Germanic make it less Northern than Massachusetts which is more mixed? I don't get where you are going with this. Today, the demographics of each state are low on actual English ancestry anyway.

I understand the Texas argument but you didn't address my point about Mississippi which is arguably one of the most Southern places and isn't on the Coast nor is it an original part of the 13 colonies.

So again, what makes Minnesota less Northern than Massachusetts? Less Italians? What? Many of these groups weren't even really as prominent around the time the North/South identities were drawn anyway.
Because Germanic ethnic groups are the biggest everywhere except for the Northeast. Its a specifically Northern Trait, Religiously is Protestant like the South vs Catholic like the Eastern Part of the North.

Mississippi is a direct extension of the east coast, they simply ran out of land to cultivate (or exhausted it due to lack of crop rotation). Compared to the Northeast and Midwest that always had distinctly different industries. In fact the South made a concerted effort to "colonize" the western reaches of the South to make is as similar as possible to the "Old South" (look at Bleeding Kansas), that was not the case in the North were people went were they went randomly, and often it wasn't even Americans but Germans passing through straight to the Midwest.
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