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View Poll Results: Most Northern state?
Maine 21 14.09%
Vermont 8 5.37%
New Hampshire 0 0%
Massachusetts 37 24.83%
Rhode Island 0 0%
Connecticut 4 2.68%
New York 29 19.46%
Michigan 3 2.01%
Wisconsin 2 1.34%
Minnesota 41 27.52%
North Dakota 3 2.01%
South Dakota 0 0%
Nebraska 1 0.67%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-04-2018, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,729,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Sure I think a lot of those things are typically "northern" though I don't see why Italian food is that important? That's an east coast bias. Plus the South has better food (and more variety) hands down. I would add pine trees, giant lakes which freeze in winter, moose and deer in forests, lots of birches and maple trees. NY state is full of that as well but NYC? Northern yes but too eastern and also way too big. There's lots of poverty in the north it may not be to the levels of Mississippi but it's there. Look up Kiryas Joel.
People keep saying pine trees so I have to make a small correction. It's more about spruce and fir than pine.

The south has entire pine-dominant forests (Carolina pine is extremely common). Oftentimes though, when people think "pine" they are actually thinking about spruce and/or fir.

The "Christmas tree" shape is more common in spruce and fir trees than it is proper pines. This is far more dominant in northern and midland forests, especially as you approach and travel northwards in Canada (West Virginia makes an exception here due to its similar climate to the inner northeastern US).

Pines, on the flip side, come in a wild variety of shapes. Some to the point where the un-trained eye may mistake it for another sort of tree entirely. Most pines are actually not "Christmas" shaped (long pointed cones, if you will).

This last bit I am not entirely sure about, but I think pines are the most populous tree species on Earth.
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:28 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,839,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Because Germanic ethnic groups are the biggest everywhere except for the Northeast. Its a specifically Northern Trait, Religiously is Protestant like the South vs Catholic like the Eastern Part of the North.

Mississippi is a direct extension of the east coast, they simply ran out of land to cultivate (or exhausted it due to lack of crop rotation). Compared to the Northeast and Midwest that always had distinctly different industries. In fact the South made a concerted effort to "colonize" the western reaches of the South to make is as similar as possible to the "Old South" (look at Bleeding Kansas), that was not the case in the North were people went were they went randomly, and often it wasn't even Americans but Germans passing through straight to the Midwest.
It wasn't Americans? Buddyboyo the Midwest was settled entirely by Americans when it became America. It's not as if Germanic peoples came out of nowhere and created the Midwest. Even people from Massachusetts settled Minnesota.

And that is not true about your White ethnic statement. The West Coast has very high concentrations of those same Northeast groups AND so does the Great Lakes (not the states but the cultural region from Western New York to Milwaukee)

And please don't say Minnesota is Protestant like the South. Minnesota's religious landscape is Left leaning Lutheran Scandos as opposed to Right leaning Baptist people of British Isles (Scotch Irish mostly) ancestry. Midwest religion is just like Northeast religion in that Mainline Protestants make up the dominant and founding culture. Catholics also make up the majority of people in Great Lakes cities.

Read about the 11 Nations of the US. The demography between the Northeast goes on a continuum across similar latitudes as that is how settlement patterns went. The same East Anglian Yankees took their culture into the Midwest. .

Catholics just like Italians are not a Northeast specific demographic. But what is shared between the Northeast and the Midwest is the Mainline Protestant culture ad opposed to the Baptist and Evangelical culture of the South.

People conflate the Midwest with the South as if it was an extension of it. That ignores history and is dishonest. Southerners didn't make a cultural impact on the Midwest the same way Northeastern people did. Go ahead and say Massachusetts is more Northern because it was the cradle of East Anglian/Yankee culture but not because of cultural aspects that all happened much after the North vs South delineations were already made. That makes more sense than trying to draw some imaginary (and non existent) line between Catholics/ Italians and Protestants/Germanics. The things that make the North unique are more complicated than that. Religiously we Northern Protestants share more with each other than with Southern ones.
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:07 PM
 
9,383 posts, read 9,529,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
It wasn't Americans? Buddyboyo the Midwest was settled entirely by Americans when it became America. It's not as if Germanic peoples came out of nowhere and created the Midwest. Even people from Massachusetts settled Minnesota.

And that is not true about your White ethnic statement. The West Coast has very high concentrations of those same Northeast groups AND so does the Great Lakes (not the states but the cultural region from Western New York to Milwaukee)

And please don't say Minnesota is Protestant like the South. Minnesota's religious landscape is Left leaning Lutheran Scandos as opposed to Right leaning Baptist people of British Isles (Scotch Irish mostly) ancestry. Midwest religion is just like Northeast religion in that Mainline Protestants make up the dominant and founding culture. Catholics also make up the majority of people in Great Lakes cities.

Read about the 11 Nations of the US. The demography between the Northeast goes on a continuum across similar latitudes as that is how settlement patterns went. The same East Anglian Yankees took their culture into the Midwest. .

Catholics just like Italians are not a Northeast specific demographic. But what is shared between the Northeast and the Midwest is the Mainline Protestant culture ad opposed to the Baptist and Evangelical culture of the South.

People conflate the Midwest with the South as if it was an extension of it. That ignores history and is dishonest. Southerners didn't make a cultural impact on the Midwest the same way Northeastern people did. Go ahead and say Massachusetts is more Northern because it was the cradle of East Anglian/Yankee culture but not because of cultural aspects that all happened much after the North vs South delineations were already made. That makes more sense than trying to draw some imaginary (and non existent) line between Catholics/ Italians and Protestants/Germanics. The things that make the North unique are more complicated than that. Religiously we Northern Protestants share more with each other than with Southern ones.
Massachusetts and RI are about 50% Catholic Minnesota is about 20%. Massachusetts has almost no Northern Europeans.

Northern Culture emanated from New England it was otherwise diluted by a combination of the Great Migration from the South or the different demographics of westward expansion.
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:55 PM
 
240 posts, read 117,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
A stereotype to who? Your own perception? I don't know anyone that stereotypes the North as having better food. Most certainly not Southerners. Northerners believing one thing about themselves isn't exactly a stereotype.

And again, are Italians a magical determinant of Northern identity? What do you make of the fact the mob had a very strong presence in New Orleans?
Umm...the Northeast has better food than the South. You could say the same thing about Northernwrs. Northernwrs think they have better food than Southerners, and Southerners think they have better food. It just depends which side you are on. Also, Southern cuisine is delicious, but it is horrible for you. In addition, the Northeat has far better ethnic food and a much larger variety. There is no denying that Northern fine dining and ethnic food is far better. The only food better in the South is Southern food.

Yes, Italians are a major determinant of Northern identity. Just read he above posterís comment that Germanic ethnic groups are the largest everywhere except the Nottheast. In the Northeast, Italians, Irish, and Jews are dominant. That is a distinct characteristic of the North that defines daily life and the regionís culture.
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:05 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,839,346 times
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Originally Posted by geographybee View Post
Umm...the Northeast has better food than the South. You could say the same thing about Northernwrs. Northernwrs think they have better food than Southerners, and Southerners think they have better food. It just depends which side you are on. Also, Southern cuisine is delicious, but it is horrible for you. In addition, the Northeat has far better ethnic food and a much larger variety. There is no denying that Northern fine dining and ethnic food is far better. The only food better in the South is Southern food.

Yes, Italians are a major determinant of Northern identity. Just read he above posterís comment that Germanic ethnic groups are the largest everywhere except the Nottheast. In the Northeast, Italians, Irish, and Jews are dominant. That is a distinct characteristic of the North that defines daily life and the regionís culture.
Stop calling it the North. It is a defining factor of the Northeast and the Great Lakes. So the Great Lakes are just as Northern as the Northeast due to this.

If you want to argue why these things are NORTHEASTERN go right ahead. But you can't in any shape or form use them to define the NORTH. When the North vs South delineations were made, these ethnic groups weren't as prominent as they are now.

Moving the goalposts again and again. Why does Massachusetts having Italians make it more Northern than Minnesota? How? It makes NO sense and nobody has explained this AT ALL
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:18 PM
 
9,383 posts, read 9,529,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Stop calling it the North. It is a defining factor of the Northeast and the Great Lakes. So the Great Lakes are just as Northern as the Northeast due to this.

If you want to argue why these things are NORTHEASTERN go right ahead. But you can't in any shape or form use them to define the NORTH. When the North vs South delineations were made, these ethnic groups weren't as prominent as they are now.

Moving the goalposts again and again. Why does Massachusetts having Italians make it more Northern than Minnesota? How? It makes NO sense and nobody has explained this AT ALL
Because it's something nowhere in the South has, demographically and culturally the Midwest is more like the South than the Northeast is.
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,729,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Because it's something nowhere in the South has, demographically and culturally the Midwest is more like the South than the Northeast is.
Demographically, no. The Midwest is highly Germanic and Scandinavian in ancestry, the south is more dominantly Celtic, English and African.

Culturally only a tiny portion of the Midwest is like the south, and that just happens to be the part of the Midwest that borders the south, so that stands to reason.

Politically, Indiana stands out in the north as much as Florida stands out in the south. An outlier.

The "Midwest is like the south" argument needs to stop. It's misguided and often comes from a place of ignorance and/or elitism. NOBODY from the south would boast regional kinship with Iowa or Wisconsin or Michigan.

Further, the great lakes is shared with the Midwest and northeastern US geographically, politically, culturally, and in terms of ancestry and settlement. Again, claiming the Midwest is not northern is foolish.

The Italian population on the east coast came far later than the typical white ethnic groups that make up the US. Using Italians to claim "northern" is equally misguided. That'd be like trying to define the historical south by its growing Vietnamese population.
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:51 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,839,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Because it's something nowhere in the South has, demographically and culturally the Midwest is more like the South than the Northeast is.
Lol

Demographically the Midwest is Germanic. The area around the Great Lakes has the same Northeast ethnic groups. The South on the other hand is British Isles in the White population and has high concentrations of rural Blacks which the Midwest does not. The Midwest like the Northeast has urban Blacks and not rural ones. Also, find me states in the South where Scandinavians or Polish people make up a significant part of any city. You can't.

Culturally? How? The Midwest never had the plantation culture of the South. The ethnic groups aren't even the same. What are these cultural similarities? Southern Baptists only make a majority in Missouri, which is a state torn between North and South. Elsewhere in the Midwest, I want to know how the culture is similar. Please tell me.

How can an area settled by people from the Northeast become Southern? You make 0 sense. But please enlighten me on these culturally similar aspects between the Midwest and the South.

Rural Blacks? Not in the Midwest
Sweet tea popularity? Not in the Midwest
Heavy Scotch Irish and Northern English settlement and linguistic influence? Not in the Midwest
Southern Baptist churches being the most common Protestant denominations? Not in the Midwest
Plantation culture similar to the West Indies? Never happened, not in the Midwest
Overwhelming support for the Confederacy? Not in the Midwest

Enlighten me buddyboyo. Tell me about my region and why we are so Southern and so opposed to the Northeast.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:13 PM
 
9,383 posts, read 9,529,334 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Lol

Demographically the Midwest is Germanic. The area around the Great Lakes has the same Northeast ethnic groups. The South on the other hand is British Isles in the White population and has high concentrations of rural Blacks which the Midwest does not. The Midwest like the Northeast has urban Blacks and not rural ones. Also, find me states in the South where Scandinavians or Polish people make up a significant part of any city. You can't.

Culturally? How? The Midwest never had the plantation culture of the South. The ethnic groups aren't even the same. What are these cultural similarities? Southern Baptists only make a majority in Missouri, which is a state torn between North and South. Elsewhere in the Midwest, I want to know how the culture is similar. Please tell me.

How can an area settled by people from the Northeast become Southern? You make 0 sense. But please enlighten me on these culturally similar aspects between the Midwest and the South.

Rural Blacks? Not in the Midwest
Sweet tea popularity? Not in the Midwest
Heavy Scotch Irish and Northern English settlement and linguistic influence? Not in the Midwest
Southern Baptist churches being the most common Protestant denominations? Not in the Midwest
Plantation culture similar to the West Indies? Never happened, not in the Midwest
Overwhelming support for the Confederacy? Not in the Midwest

Enlighten me buddyboyo. Tell me about my region and why we are so Southern and so opposed to the Northeast.
College Football, Major Land Grant Universities, Heavily Republicam Rural areas, Strong County Governmemts, Majority Protestant.

Also other than OH there basically wasn't a population in any Midwestern state when the identity of the north was forged.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:35 PM
 
2,013 posts, read 1,011,832 times
Reputation: 2662
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
College Football, Major Land Grant Universities, Heavily Republicam Rural areas, Strong County Governmemts, Majority Protestant.

Also other than OH there basically wasn't a population in any Midwestern state when the identity of the north was forged.
I live in Wisconsin, and I don't see anything here that reminds me of the south. You can paint with your own broad brush, if you wish, but you're painting outside the lines, and looking a little silly, in your efforts to try to convince us, that you know more than most people.
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