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View Poll Results: Most Northern state?
Maine 21 14.09%
Vermont 8 5.37%
New Hampshire 0 0%
Massachusetts 37 24.83%
Rhode Island 0 0%
Connecticut 4 2.68%
New York 29 19.46%
Michigan 3 2.01%
Wisconsin 2 1.34%
Minnesota 41 27.52%
North Dakota 3 2.01%
South Dakota 0 0%
Nebraska 1 0.67%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-23-2016, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Then if Pennsylvania makes the cut then so would Ohio. It does have all those elements as well, even some similarities to the Mid-Atlantic.
How so? I would say Pennsylvania because the Eastern part of the state has more demographic and cultural similarities to NYC and New England (more so than any part of Ohio). Yet the Western part of the state has more cultural ties to the Midwest. Pennsylvania probably has the most linguistic diversity (dialects, not languages) of any state above the Mason-Dixon and Ohio River.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:26 AM
 
56,517 posts, read 80,824,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I'd say Massachusetts without a doubt.

If you think about a state that's anti-Deep South in nearly every possible way, it has to be Mass. The South was heavily invested in chattel slavery and Massachusetts was the leader in the ideological battle against slavery (William Lloyd Garrison, Henry David Thoreau, etc.). It's also the most educated state and one of the most affluent states. It's also the most economically and socially liberal state by an extremely wide margin.
There was actually slavery in MA: Slavery in Massachusetts
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
There was actually slavery in MA: Slavery in Massachusetts
Yes, I'm well aware of that. How does that contradict the assertion that Massachusetts was a leader in the ideological battle against slavery?
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:29 AM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,840,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
How so? I would say Pennsylvania because the Eastern part of the state has more demographic and cultural similarities to NYC and New England (more so than any part of Ohio). Yet the Western part of the state has more cultural ties to the Midwest. Pennsylvania probably has the most linguistic diversity (dialects, not languages) of any state above the Mason-Dixon and Ohio River.
Linguistic diversity? More than Ohio? There are Midland and Northern accents in Pennsylvania. Just like Ohio. But the rest of your post is true.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:30 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
I didn't include states that border the South for a reason. So no. For this discussion, Illinois or Indiana wouldn't fit as part of their state has some, even if minimal Southern influence.
I would exclude the border states of OH, PA, IN, IL, etc. not because they border the South, but because a quintesentially 'Northern' state requires a 'North Country' which those states lack. For that matter, the southern New England states lack it, too.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Linguistic diversity? More than Ohio? There are Midland and Northern accents in Pennsylvania. Just like Ohio. But the rest of your post is true.
Yeah.

Pennsylvania dialects: From Pittsburghese to Philadelphia speak, the Keystone state is fascinating.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:35 AM
 
7,592 posts, read 9,444,553 times
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I did the Family Feud test, as in Richard Dawson asking a contestant: "Name a Northern state"...

I have a hunch that Minnesota might actually win that, but giving it more thought, in regard to being a quintessential Northern state, in all aspects, I might lean to New York..
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:39 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,639 posts, read 23,224,516 times
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Originally Posted by TonyNY View Post
I would seriously like to know what your sources are on this.

"Unlike Massachusetts STRONG EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN PRESENCE"? According to the Pew Research Center, Massachusetts evangelicals make up about 9% of the population. In New York? About 10% of the population. Apparently, that extra 1% makes the evangelical presence "strong"

"Remember the Massapequa Tabernacle Scandal - with Jessica Hahn, Jim Bakker, Pastor Profeta?" Are you really going back to a 1989 incident as proof that Long Island has a strong evangelical presence? How exactly does a church scandal prove anything?

"Methodist Churches are every where" Methodists in New York comprise about 2% of the population. The US as a whole? About 6%. I mean, I guess if you're keeping an eye out specifically for Methodist churches, you'll notice them more, but that doesn't mean a larger-than-usual proportion of New Yorkers belong to that denomination

"Display of Confederate Flag" The ONE time that I've seen a confederate rag in NY was when I was driving through Upstate in August 2015. I doubt that was about southern pride so much as an attempt to **** off liberals who had given new attention to the flag as a controversial symbol. Now, that's anecdotal evidence, and thus doesn't count for much, but I bet you have just as much statistical evidence to back up your claim as I do mine. That is to say, none.

"Affectionate towards the South, and admiration of Southern Values" I don't know if you've noticed, but a fairly big (especially on this forum) complaint about NY transplants (and most northern transplants) is that they refuse to adapt to southern culture. Doesn't sound very affectionate or admiring to me

"MANY people from NYS move to the South - and not only Florida - North and South Carolina, Georgia, and Texas. Some maintain dual residences." See above

"Friendly people" Remember guys, only the southern states have friendly people. All the other states are overwhelmingly filled with jerks

The rest of your points are either characteristics of rural areas in general or just flat-out wrong

I agree that Massachusetts is more quintessentially northern, but the points you used to rationalize why it's not New York instead are off-the-mark

"I agree that Massachusetts is more quintessentially northerm..."



So do I. Which is why, if I had to choose a single state - which is what I was asked to do - that is the least southern - what state would you pick?

My answer - Massachusetts.

I have lived in a few places and, for the purposes of this post, here these a a the relevant ones - Up-state and New York, Eastern Long Island, (Central and Eastern Long Island - excluding the Hamptons which are more like the NY Metro Area) and I have quite a lot of experience with Staten Island - a borough with very traditional, Southern Friendly values.

Conversely, I have lived in New York City, two places in Massachusetts, and the North Shore of Long Island. I would say that these last places are pretty much the opposite of the South.

I currently live in Ohio, and a Southern Presence can be felt here - and it's too far south geographically to ever be thought of as "quintessentially northern". The same could be said of Pennsylvania. I also lived there and it shares some of the values of the South, or more precisely values that are associated with or perceived as "Southern". Ever here of Pennsyltucky?

Were my answers observational and anecdotal? YOU BET YOUR LIFE! This is City Data not my doctoral dissertation.

I think I wrote this at 4AM. I had insomnia. And no, I did no "research" to back up my answers.

I am FROM NYState, was born in Manhattan, returned their for a while in my 20s and visit frequently.

Also, I did the majority of my undergraduate work in Massachusetts. I lived around Boston also, and I visit there frequently, because my children go to college in New England - one where I attended. I still have friends in Massachusetts from my college days.

Conversely, I have lived in EASTERN LONG ISLAND (very misunderstood region) and upstate NY, while my husband was doing graduate work.
I still have friends from up-state NY (who I met during college) who now lean politically to the right.

Also, Appalachian Culture and values are alive and well in NYS. This mountain range, and it's distinct folk ways, run from Alabama to New York State.

I think I speak from sound experience.

The Eastern part of Long Island is home to many a mega church and Fundamentalist, Evangelical churches have taken a strong foot hold there.

Not just in the 1980s - NOW. As have Christian Schools. Currently operating Conservative churches on Long Island include Smithtown Gospel Tabernacle, (Church and school) The Upper Room (Deer Park, Church and School) Shirley Assembly of God, Center Moriches Assemblies of God Church and the accompanying LE Burkett Christian School and MANY Southern Baptist Churches.

There is also The Stony Brook School - a Conservative, Christian Prep school that evangelist Billy Graham chose for his far right wing son, Franklyn Graham.

New York State in not "just NYC" - in fact, most of it is NOT NYC and actually dislikes NYC and their liberal values.

I am NOT SAYING "The South is bad" (I like the South - remember, I'm from NEW YORK STATE not Massachusetts. I am just pointing out that NYS is FAR MORE that the NYC METRO AREA, and is less quintessentially Northern than Mass.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,250 posts, read 26,220,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
I would exclude the border states of OH, PA, IN, IL, etc. not because they border the South, but because a quintesentially 'Northern' state requires a 'North Country' which those states lack. For that matter, the southern New England states lack it, too.
So does that principle work in reverse: there's another state below the southern border of Alabama and Georgia--Florida. Can Alabama be quintessentially Southern if a lacks a "South Country"?
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:41 AM
 
56,517 posts, read 80,824,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Yes, I'm well aware of that. How does that contradict the assertion that Massachusetts was a leader in the ideological battle against slavery?
Was it? NY also had its share of Abolitionists as well. This isn't even getting into the Women's Rights Movement/Suffrage, which also had a strong presence in NY.
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