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View Poll Results: Most Northern state?
Maine 21 14.09%
Vermont 8 5.37%
New Hampshire 0 0%
Massachusetts 37 24.83%
Rhode Island 0 0%
Connecticut 4 2.68%
New York 29 19.46%
Michigan 3 2.01%
Wisconsin 2 1.34%
Minnesota 41 27.52%
North Dakota 3 2.01%
South Dakota 0 0%
Nebraska 1 0.67%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-23-2016, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
Reputation: 11726

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Douglass also lived in Rochester NY for a while as well and was involved in the Abolitionist movement there. Harriet Tubman lived in Auburn and Troy NY. John Jones lived in Elmira. Jermain Wesley Loguen, a minister, lived in Syracuse. All are Black Abolitionists.

An Abolitionist organization, the American Missionary Association was organized by Black and White Abolitionists in Albany in 1846. This woman was a part of that organization: Edmonia Goodelle Highgate (1844 - 1870) - Find A Grave Memorial

So, my point is that it is debatable, as there is evidence of heavy Abolitionist activity in NY as well.
It's not debatable.

Quote:
In the spring of 1840 the abolitionist movement split itself into two camps. One headed by Garrison, had its nominal headquarters in New York but was centered in Massachusetts with pockets in Pennsylvania and a lonely outpost or two in Ohio...The schism had its dress rehearsal in Massachusetts, the key issue being the viewpoints of Garrison.
What in that statement is debatable? I guess you can say the research "isn't accurate" but you haven't provided any basis to challenge that. The abolitionist movement was largely grounded in Boston and I have never seen anything that suggests the contrary.

Frederick Douglass left Massachusetts, which is where the abolitionist movement was spearheaded.

Your argument is sort of like saying that San Jose is not the tech hub of the U.S. because tech is "big" in Boston.
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:34 AM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,847,498 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
"The North" is obviously more than the Upper Midwest, New York State and New England. Is Pittsburgh not a "northern" city?

Pennsylvania is really the only state that sort of straddles all of these cultural and linguistic lines. Similar to NYC in the East, similar to the Upper Midwest around Erie, and similar to the Lower Midwest in much of Western Pennsylvania.
The North as in the Yankee settled North I should have specified. After all it does seem like Yankees seem to define quintessential North.

But I suppose if we want a state that represents every section of the North, PA could in theory fit the bill. I still pick New York because of the Yankee settlers and because it also elements of New England. PA kind of does not. Then there is the whole Pennsyltucky thing
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
The North as in the Yankee settled North I should have specified. After all it does seem like Yankees seem to define quintessential North.
Then your answer should be Massachusetts.
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:46 AM
 
56,637 posts, read 80,930,134 times
Reputation: 12509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It's not debatable.



What in that statement is debatable? I guess you can say the research "isn't accurate" but you haven't provided any basis to challenge that. The abolitionist movement was largely grounded in Boston and I have never seen anything that suggests the contrary.

Frederick Douglass left Massachusetts, which is where the abolitionist movement was spearheaded.

Your argument is sort of like saying that San Jose is not the tech hub of the U.S. because tech is "big" in Boston.
Not really.....Even your information mentions that Garrison had a presence in NY. My point is that MA wasn't the only place with serious Abolitionist activity and there was information already provided on my end.

Also, Douglass settled in New Bedford MA when he left MD. So, it was just the first place he settled in when he came North.
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Not really.....Even your information mentions that Garrison had a presence in NY. My point is that MA wasn't the only place with serious Abolitionist activity and there was information already provided on my end.
I guess the words "nominal" and "centered" don't mean anything to you.

Quote:
In the spring of 1840 the abolitionist movement split itself into two camps. One headed by Garrison, had its nominal headquarters in New York but was centered in Massachusetts with pockets in Pennsylvania and a lonely outpost or two in Ohio...The schism had its dress rehearsal in Massachusetts, the key issue being the viewpoints of Garrison.
Quote:
existing as something in name only : not actual or real
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nominal

I never said that Massachusetts was the "only" place with abolitionist activity. That's a strawman.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:36 PM
 
56,637 posts, read 80,930,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I guess the words "nominal" and "centered" don't mean anything to you.





Nominal | Definition of Nominal by Merriam-Webster

I never said that Massachusetts was the "only" place with abolitionist activity. That's a strawman.
Not much different than overlooking the information I presented. Again, it is still debatable that the movement was strictly "centered" in MA. The Freethought Trail
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
25,033 posts, read 23,924,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
The North as in the Yankee settled North I should have specified. After all it does seem like Yankees seem to define quintessential North.

But I suppose if we want a state that represents every section of the North, PA could in theory fit the bill. I still pick New York because of the Yankee settlers and because it also elements of New England. PA kind of does not. Then there is the whole Pennsyltucky thing
Are you referring to the 1942 Popeye cartoon, or Jeannie Seely's 1972 song? We know that James Carville didn't use that term.

If you require Yankees, do the ones from Connecticut count? They settled along both branches of the Susquehanna.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennam...0%93Yankee_War
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Not much different than overlooking the information I presented. Again, it is still debatable that the movement was "centered" in MA. The Freethought Trail
It is very different from what you are saying. Take, for example, this statement and response.

"Slavery was largely in the South."

"Yes, but slavery was in Pennsylvania, too."


Then imagine posting tons of articles about slavery in Massachusetts, Vermont, etc. This is essentially what you're doing here. While it is true that slavery existed in Pennsylvania and Massachusetts, the institution was overwhelmingly concentrated in the South. Similarly, abolitionists existed everywhere (even in slave states) but it was overwhelmingly centered in New England, and more specifically Massachusetts. I've already provided sources substantiating this.

Philadelphia has probably the earliest record of anti-slavery activism in the English colonies. But it wasn't Philadelphia's Quakers that pushed slavery to the forefront of national politics.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Also, Douglass settled in New Bedford MA when he left MD. So, it was just the first place he settled in when he came North.
You write that as if his life trajectory would have been the same no matter where he went. Douglass' time in Massachusetts was critical because that was where the abolitionist movement was principally concentrated. That's where he met William Lloyd Garrison and William Wells Brown. That obviously doesn't happen if he moves to Ohio.

https://pilgrimpathways.wordpress.co...-estrangement/

“Abolitionism was an organized moral crusade centered in New England . . . to rid the nation of the sin of slavery. But the slaveholders, refusing to be moved by moral suasion and the principles of ‘true religion,’ made compromise impossible. Slavery, at war with the laws of God and nature, thus perished by the sword.”

—James Ford Rhodes, Lectures on the American Civil War (New York: Macmillan, 1913)

"Those who called for an immediate end to slavery, called abolitionists, were centered in New England, especially in Massachusetts, and considered by many to be radical and dangerous in their political views."

http://www.virginiamemory.com/online...-/abolitionism
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,323 posts, read 21,895,576 times
Reputation: 33496
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
I would exclude the border states of OH, PA, IN, IL, etc. not because they border the South, but because a quintesentially 'Northern' state requires a 'North Country' which those states lack. For that matter, the southern New England states lack it, too.
L'Etoile du Nord...

I don't know what you want to call them New Englandy states but up here in the North Star State, we gotta look to our south to see you



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Country_(film)
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