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View Poll Results: Most Northern state?
Maine 21 14.09%
Vermont 8 5.37%
New Hampshire 0 0%
Massachusetts 37 24.83%
Rhode Island 0 0%
Connecticut 4 2.68%
New York 29 19.46%
Michigan 3 2.01%
Wisconsin 2 1.34%
Minnesota 41 27.52%
North Dakota 3 2.01%
South Dakota 0 0%
Nebraska 1 0.67%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-23-2016, 01:19 PM
 
56,744 posts, read 81,061,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It is very different from what you are saying. Take, for example, this statement and response.

"Slavery was largely in the South."

"Yes, but slavery was in Pennsylvania, too."


Then imagine posting tons of articles about slavery in Massachusetts, Vermont, etc. This is essentially what you're doing here. While it is true that slavery existed in Pennsylvania and Massachusetts, the institution was overwhelmingly concentrated in the South. Similarly, abolitionists existed everywhere (even in slave states) but it was overwhelmingly centered in New England, and more specifically Massachusetts. I've already provided sources substantiating this.

Philadelphia has probably the earliest record of anti-slavery activism in the English colonies. But it wasn't Philadelphia's Quakers that pushed slavery to the forefront of national politics.
I know what I said and I only mentioned slavery in MA to show that it wasn't any different from just about any other of the 13 Colonies. Again, it is up for debate in terms of where the Abolitionist Movement was centered: Top Five Cities of the Abolitionist Movement
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,279,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I know what I said and I only mentioned slavery in MA to show that it wasn't any different from just about any other of the 13 Colonies.
First, that's not factually true. That's like saying the District of Columbia is no different from Mississippi because both will have people who will vote for Trump. Second, the history of slavery in Massachusetts has nothing to do with my statement that Massachusetts was the leader in the abolitionist movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Again, it is up for debate in terms of where the Abolitionist Movement was centered: Top Five Cities of the Abolitionist Movement
I saw that link already. That doesn't contradict the scholarship of well-regarded historians that shows the abolitionist movement was centered in Massachusetts.

That seems to be a thing on here. Like, I provide a book or some other peer-reviewed secondary source and someone responds with fluff. That website would be appropriate for a 6th grade history paper.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:32 PM
 
56,744 posts, read 81,061,259 times
Reputation: 12549
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
First, that's not factually true. That's like saying the District of Columbia is no different from Mississippi because both will have people who will vote for Trump. Second, the history of slavery in Massachusetts has nothing to do with my statement that Massachusetts was the leader in the abolitionist movement.



I saw that link already. That doesn't contradict the scholarship of well-regarded historians that shows the abolitionist movement was centered in Massachusetts.

That seems to be a thing on here. Like, I provide a book or some other peer-reviewed secondary source and someone responds with fluff. I mean, I hope you wouldn't include that in a footnote for an 11th grade history paper.
Not close in terms of the first part of your post, as Mississippi wasn't one of the 13 Colonies and slavery was a part of the economy in each of those colonies to some degree.

Again, I've provided information from a range of sources. Believe what you want though.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,279,915 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Not close in terms of the first part of your post, as Mississippi wasn't one of the 13 Colonies and slavery was a part of the economy in each of those colonies to some degree.
*Whiff*

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Again, I've provided information from a range of sources. Believe what you want though.
Yes, I will believe peer-reviewed secondary sources authored by historians. I'll also believe in climate change.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:45 PM
 
56,744 posts, read 81,061,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
The North as in the Yankee settled North I should have specified. After all it does seem like Yankees seem to define quintessential North.

But I suppose if we want a state that represents every section of the North, PA could in theory fit the bill. I still pick New York because of the Yankee settlers and because it also elements of New England. PA kind of does not. Then there is the whole Pennsyltucky thing
What is interesting is that the term Yankee may have its origins with Dutch settlers in the Hudson Valley of NY and then it spread into New England.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:51 PM
 
56,744 posts, read 81,061,259 times
Reputation: 12549
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
*Whiff*



Yes, I will believe peer-reviewed secondary sources authored by historians. I'll also believe in climate change.
Which I already a book in regards to Abolitionist activity in Upstate NY which must have gone over your head or nose. North Star Country Upstate New York and the Crusade for African American Freedom by Milton C. Sernett :: Syracuse University Press Syracuse New York


More: Abolition's Axe Beriah Green, Oneida Institute, and the Black Freedom Struggle by Milton C. Sernett Syracuse University Press Syracuse New York

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-23-2016 at 02:10 PM..
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,279,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Which I already a book in regards to Abolitionist activity in Upstate NY which must have gone over your head or nose.
You need to understand that if you say something is "debatable," then you need to provide evidence that directly challenges the assertion being made.

Here is what you posted.

North Star Country Upstate New York and the Crusade for African American Freedom by Milton C. Sernett :: Syracuse University Press Syracuse New York

What is there in the description that challenges the conventional wisdom that Massachusetts was the center of the abolitionist movement? You like to post links without providing the language you believe actually supports your point ("Take a look!").
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:12 PM
 
56,744 posts, read 81,061,259 times
Reputation: 12549
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You need to understand that if you say something is "debatable," then you need to provide evidence that directly challenges the assertion being made.

Here is what you posted.

North Star Country Upstate New York and the Crusade for African American Freedom by Milton C. Sernett :: Syracuse University Press Syracuse New York

What is there in the description that challenges the conventional wisdom that Massachusetts was the center of the abolitionist movement?
That NY State also was a center of Abolitionist activity. This may make it clearer for you: Syracuse was an openly abolitionist city in the 1850s | syracuse.com


Underground Railroad History & Tours in New York State


National Abolition Hall of Fame and Museum Peterboro NY, Abolitionist Movement Peterboro NY, Abolition of Slavery Peterboro NY,Anti Slavery Movement Peterboro NY (it is located east of Syracuse)


There's also the "Burned Over District", which is in the book and C.G. Finney was a big part of that through evangelism(the second Great Awakening) in Upstate NY. That is what helped start Abolitionist activity in that part of the state. So, there is a religious component involved in regards to Abolitionist Movement as well. Finney by the way, while born in CT, grew up primarily in Adams NY, which is about 45 minutes north of Syracuse.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-23-2016 at 02:22 PM..
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,279,915 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
That NY State also was a center of Abolitionist activity. This may make it clearer for you: Syracuse was an openly abolitionist city in the 1850s | syracuse.com


Underground Railroad History & Tours in New York State


National Abolition Hall of Fame and Museum Peterboro NY, Abolitionist Movement Peterboro NY, Abolition of Slavery Peterboro NY,Anti Slavery Movement Peterboro NY (it is located east of Syracuse)


There's also the "Burned Over District", which is in the book and C.G. Finney was a big part of that through evangelism(the second Great Awakening) in Upstate NY. That is what helped start Abolitionist activity in that part of the state. So, there is a religious component involved in regards to Abolitionist Movement as well. Finney by the way, while born in CT, grew up primarily in Adams NY, which is about 45 minutes north of Syracuse.
It doesn't make it clearer. The abolitionist movement was centered in New England and then spread to other parts of the country. Philadelphia also "had a lot of abolitionist activity." That doesn't mean it was ideological epicenter of the movement.

If the abolitionist movement were the Mafia, then New England would have been the Commission.
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Old 09-23-2016, 03:14 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,856,134 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
What is interesting is that the term Yankee may have its origins with Dutch settlers in the Hudson Valley of NY and then it spread into New England.
True. Pennsylvania wasn't really Dutch though, was it? Wasn't it mostly German and English?
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