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Old 09-21-2016, 09:38 PM
 
Location: San Francisco/East Bay and Los Angeles, formerly DC and Boston
2,147 posts, read 3,437,235 times
Reputation: 1842

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In spite of a winning record and playoff contention, Baltimore has been drawing very small crowds, including just 20,000 tonight, many of whom were cheering for the visiting Red Sox. Front page story on ESPN.com about this, with CFer Adam Jones calling the empty park "eerie". Cleveland has had similar struggles drawing fans, though attendance there has picked up a little since the team starting winning.

Outside of St. Louis and defending WS champ KC, all the teams averaging > 30,000 fans a game are in top 15 media markets. Smaller than Charlotte, Portland, and Raleigh-Durham, is Baltimore really a suitable long-term home for MLB?

Some argue there's a DC effect with the Nats, but I lived in DC for a long time, and as surveys have shown, the Nats biggest challenge in terms of winning new fans is transplant Red Sox/Yankees/Cubs fans, not the Orioles. In fact, the Orioles aren't even in the top 3 teams based on Facebook fan data in DC and Northern Virginia. And unlike the NFL, MLB depends on local revenue. So at what point does MLB need to assess its geographies more closely?
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Old 09-22-2016, 04:47 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
3,145 posts, read 2,834,294 times
Reputation: 2858
Cost and length of the game. Those games will drag out for hours. Pro and college football is getting just as bad.
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
Reputation: 11734
Baseball and Its Aging Fans - WSJ
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11 View Post
In spite of a winning record and playoff contention, Baltimore has been drawing very small crowds, including just 20,000 tonight, many of whom were cheering for the visiting Red Sox. Front page story on ESPN.com about this, with CFer Adam Jones calling the empty park "eerie". Cleveland has had similar struggles drawing fans, though attendance there has picked up a little since the team starting winning.

Outside of St. Louis and defending WS champ KC, all the teams averaging > 30,000 fans a game are in top 15 media markets. Smaller than Charlotte, Portland, and Raleigh-Durham, is Baltimore really a suitable long-term home for MLB?

Some argue there's a DC effect with the Nats, but I lived in DC for a long time, and as surveys have shown, the Nats biggest challenge in terms of winning new fans is transplant Red Sox/Yankees/Cubs fans, not the Orioles. In fact, the Orioles aren't even in the top 3 teams based on Facebook fan data in DC and Northern Virginia. And unlike the NFL, MLB depends on local revenue. So at what point does MLB need to assess its geographies more closely?
This should be in the baseball forum.

Cleveland and Baltimore's teams aren't going anywhere. The Orioles' revenue in 2015 wasn't much lower than the Phillies' despite being a smaller media market. The Os actually had higher revenues than the Mariners, Astros and Rockies.

Discussing Pirates’ 2015 Revenue, 2016 Payroll, and 2017’s CBA | The Point of Pittsburgh

Baseball will always have decent attendance because of tradition. You are going to have those die-hards the same way boxing does (also declining). Then you're going to have the company-sponsored outings (which boxing doesn't have). So history, tradition and corporate sponsorship have established a floor for MLB's attendance, imo.
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
8,773 posts, read 7,714,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
This should be in the baseball forum.

Cleveland and Baltimore's teams aren't going anywhere. The Orioles' revenue in 2015 wasn't much lower than the Phillies' despite being a smaller media market. The Os actually had higher revenues than the Mariners, Astros and Rockies.

Discussing Pirates’ 2015 Revenue, 2016 Payroll, and 2017’s CBA | The Point of Pittsburgh

Baseball will always have decent attendance because of tradition. You are going to have those die-hards the same way boxing does (also declining). Then you're going to have the company-sponsored outings (which boxing doesn't have). So history, tradition and corporate sponsorship have established a floor for MLB's attendance, imo.
Exactly, at least for the Indians, they make so much money on TV and still get great local ratings, it almost doesn't matter who goes to the games. Though I will say, it is much more attractive to players when the city is really behind you and going to the park is fun. And it is really a great deal in Cleveland, they have done great things at their ballpark.

And this idea that somehow Portland or whatever other city with no baseball tradition can just pick up a baseball team, I think that is a fantasy. Might work for basketball or football due to sheer popularity, but baseball, no. It's a cultural thing.
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Old 09-22-2016, 11:37 AM
 
21,218 posts, read 30,435,315 times
Reputation: 19671
I don't think the issue is so much lack of support as it is stadium capacity. The newer ballparks are tending toward smaller capacity to reflect modern demand because with the advent of cable/satellite packages allowing one to see the games at home, fewer are going to the games and not losing interest as some are seemingly suggesting.
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Old 09-22-2016, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
I don't think the issue is so much lack of support as it is stadium capacity. The newer ballparks are tending toward smaller capacity to reflect modern demand because with the advent of cable/satellite packages allowing one to see the games at home, fewer are going to the games and not losing interest as some are seemingly suggesting.
People have been losing interest. That's a fact.

Audience Aging, Shrinking, But Baseball More Valuable Than Ever - NBC News

Halftime: The 50 Most-Watched Sporting Events of 2016 (So Far) — Sports Media Watch

Halftime: Top 100 Sporting Events on Broadcast and Cable in 2011 — Sports Media Watch

NBA Finals vs World Series ratings since 1984

MLB was bigger than the NBA in the 80s and 90s, but the NBA is now firmly establishing itself as America's second favorite sport as baseball's viewership continues to age and shrink.
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Old 09-22-2016, 12:28 PM
 
21,218 posts, read 30,435,315 times
Reputation: 19671
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
People have been losing interest. That's a fact.

Audience Aging, Shrinking, But Baseball More Valuable Than Ever - NBC News

Halftime: The 50 Most-Watched Sporting Events of 2016 (So Far) — Sports Media Watch

Halftime: Top 100 Sporting Events on Broadcast and Cable in 2011 — Sports Media Watch

NBA Finals vs World Series ratings since 1984

MLB was bigger than the NBA in the 80s and 90s, but the NBA is now firmly establishing itself as America's second favorite sport as baseball's viewership continues to age and shrink.
I don't think you even read the links.

"Despite the ratings stubbornness on traditional television, revenues are sky-high. A new eight-year TV deal pays the league $1.55 billion per year—more than double the previous agreement. Adgate's analysis shows that relative to other options, baseball is still a winner: "Even the lowest World Series today delivers more than twice the number of 18-49 year-old viewers than the typical prime-time show." Baseball's deal is similar in growth to the NBA's massive new television contract, continuing the trend of live sports fetching a high price tag because viewers watch live and don't skip commercials."
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Old 09-22-2016, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
Reputation: 11734
Millennials also seem to prefer the NBA. MLB ranks behind MLS, NFL and NHL. Millennials are the MLB's weakest demographic by far.

SBRnet | Sport Business Research Network

Sports - Pro Football is Still America

https://www.ypulse.com/post/view/mil...ports-to-watch
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Old 09-22-2016, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
I don't think you even read the links.

"Despite the ratings stubbornness on traditional television, revenues are sky-high. A new eight-year TV deal pays the league $1.55 billion per year—more than double the previous agreement. Adgate's analysis shows that relative to other options, baseball is still a winner: "Even the lowest World Series today delivers more than twice the number of 18-49 year-old viewers than the typical prime-time show." Baseball's deal is similar in growth to the NBA's massive new television contract, continuing the trend of live sports fetching a high price tag because viewers watch live and don't skip commercials."
What is the "typical prime time show"? MLB used to have better ratings than the NBA; that's no longer true. That's largely a consequence of an aging fanbase. Unlike the NBA, there are few Millennial baseball fans replacing Baby Boomer fans.

Fixing Baseball's Old-People Problem - Bloomberg

World Series: Why Kids Aren't Watching Baseball - WSJ

Baseball is most popular with older Gen Xers and Baby Boomers living in the Eastern U.S. That doesn't bode well for the sport from a future revenue perspective.
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