Toronto's Place in the US (estimated, horses, health)

[edwardsyzzurphands]

I think it would definitely be in the top 7. Based on size alone it belongs in the top 5 but the issue is that it would lose much of its clout as Canada's premier economic center by relocating to the US. Much of its influence in finance would be stripped away by Nyc. It's R&D gains in recent years would be on upped by Silicon Valley. It's Life Sciences and Medical cluster would be beaten by Boston. We can't deny that Toronto benefits (no fault of its own) from being the English speaking focal point of a wealthy and politically stable nation.

With that said I view the cities in the top 6 as absolutely world class (NYC, LA, Chi, DC, SF and Boston) and Toronto is also world class and belongs right there with the others.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by North 42

And you think SF is talked about in Toronto? It's not.

Oh it definitely is. We have lots of techies from Toronto who moved here to work in the industry.

[intheclouds1]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Toronto isnt really that talked about on the West Coast.

LA isn't really talked about in Boston..doesn't take away from the fact that it's a big name city.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by intheclouds1

LA isn't really talked about in Boston..doesn't take away from the fact that it's a big name city.

Toronto is no more a 'big name city" than Houston or Miami ot a dozen other US cities.

You guys keep applying a false high status to Toronto as a US city because its the biggest city in Canada, a country that is smaller than California and has a smaller economy than CA, TX and the NY metro. That makes no sense.

[joey joe-joe]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Toronto is no more a 'big name city" than Houston or Miami ot a dozen other US cities.

You guys keep applying a false high status to Toronto as a US city because its the biggest city in Canada, a country that is smaller than California and has a smaller economy than CA, TX and the NY metro. That makes no sense.

But we're comparing cities not countries.


Why the hell is this such a hard concept to understand by so many members on this forum?


We are here to compare and talk about cities in a vacuum. It's like when everyone starts talking about how great the North East and Mid Atlantic is in a Philly thread, or something.


This is a forum about cities, not countries. Jesus Christ.

[intheclouds1]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Toronto is no more a 'big name city" than Houston or Miami ot a dozen other US cities.

You guys keep applying a false high status to Toronto as a US city because its the biggest city in Canada, a country that is smaller than California and has a smaller economy than CA, TX and the NY metro. That makes no sense.

Did you even read my first post? I literally said that we need to take into account that Toronto wouldn't be as big as it is if it was in the US...the only reason why it's such a big name is because it is Canada's biggest city...

[Soonhun]

Toronto is overestimated here. But someone else did make a good point. If Toronto was part of the US, how much of the rest of Canada would be as well? I was going on the idea of just Southern Canada being part of the US, excluding the area around Ottawa. If all of Ontario was part of the US, however, I would say Toronto is solidly within the top 8, possibly higher, instead of the top 10,since it would have a larger region of influence.

Also, while diversity is nice, it doesn't really have to do with being world class or important, just look as Tokyo or Seoul, important cities which are interesting but also very homogenous.

Toronto, assuming only southern Ontario bar Ottawa region is part of the US, would probably rank after Boston, DFW, Houston, and Philadelphia. Toronto isn't as large as many Americans think it is and, truth is, many American cities are larger than many Americans think they are.

[Atticman]

Originally Posted by Dollarstorrrrey

Dude, chill out. Toronto is a nice city but it is still not world class. It does not have the diversity (by U.S standards) that most cities have in the the United States. I don't know of any kind of real Hispanic or black community in Toronto either.

Toronto is just simply not impressive to most. It is not a city well known on the world stage, it is not iconic. Canadians should be proud that they have quite a large city such as Toronto in a country with such a small and mostly rural dwelling population though. That is a personal accomplishment.

Wow, where do I begin? There were 400,000 blacks in the Toronto CMA as of the 2011 census, and 120,000 Latinos. Both population groups (especially Latinos) have grown quite a bit over the last 5 years, so when the 2016 census results are released, expect those numbers to have grown. Toronto's Caribbean community is among the largest of any city in the U.S. or Canada. By most metrics such as percent of foreign born (over 50%), number of large visible minority groups (with over 5,000 members), ethnicity, languages spoken, religious groups, etc., -- using those criteria, Toronto is right up there with NYC, London, Paris and LA as one of the most diverse cities in the world.

As a percentage of the total population, more Canadians live in urban areas than do Americans.


Here's some info I saw on another forum recently that shows foreign born populations for various city's metro areas narrowed down to the number of countries and overseas territories containing more than 15,000 residents within each metro. Obviously, NYC being 3 times Toronto's size (both city proper and metro) will have more groups surpassing the 15,000 threshold, but if I had the total numbers for the 5,000 threshold, the two cities would be much closer. I do know that the Toronto metro has 69 foreign born groups with at least 5,000 people each. Toronto still does very well against LA at 15,000 even though LA has a much larger metro population.

Number of foreign born groups with at least 15,000 people and countries of origin:

New York: 52
Europe: 13 (Italy, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, UK, Germany, Portugal, Greece, Ireland, France, Albania, Spain, Belarus)
Africa: 3 (Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria)
Asia: 13 (China, India, Philippines, Korea, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Taiwan, Israel, Japan, Vietnam, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Iran)
Americas: 23 (Dominican Republic, Mexico, Jamaica, Ecuador, Guyana, Colombia, Haiti, El Salvador, Trinidad and Tobago, Peru, Guatemala, Honduras, Cuba, Brazil, Canada, Argentina, Barbados, Grenada, Panama, Costa Rica, Venezuela, St. Vincent and the Grenadines)

Los Angeles: 30
Europe: 5 (UK, Russia, Germany, Ukraine, France)
Africa: 1 (Egypt)
Asia: 14 (Philippines, Vietnam, Korea, China, Iran, Taiwan, India, Armenia, Japan, Cambodia, Thailand, Lebanon, Indonesia, Israel)
Americas: 10 (Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Canada, Honduras, Peru, Nicaragua, Colombia, Argentina, Ecuador)

Toronto: 28
Europe: 9 (UK, Italy, Portugal, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Greece, Germany, Romania, in that order)
Africa: 2 (Egypt, Nigeria, in that order)
Asia: 12 (China, India, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Iran, Vietnam, South Korea, Bangladesh, Iraq, Afghanistan, Taiwan, in that order)
Americas: 5 (Jamaica, Guyana, USA, Trinidad and Tobago, Colombia, in that order)
Oceania: 0

Miami: 20
Europe: 1 (UK)
Asia: 3 (India, China, Philippines)
Americas: 16 (Cuba, Haiti, Colombia, Jamaica, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Mexico, Peru, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Brazil, Canada, Ecuador, Argentina, El Salvador, Trinidad and Tobago)

Washington: 20
Europe: 2 (UK, Germany)
Africa: 3 (Ethiopia, Ghana, Nigeria)
Asia: 7 (India, Korea, China, Philippines, Vietnam, Pakistan, Iran)
Americas: 8 (El Salvador, Mexico, Guatemala, Peru, Honduras, Bolivia, Jamaica, Colombia)

Bay Area: 17
Europe: 3 (UK, Germany, Russia)
Asia: 8 (China, Philippines, India, Vietnam, Taiwan, Korea, Iran, Japan)
Americas: 6 (Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Canada, Peru)

Chicago: 16
Europe: 6 (Poland, Germany, Italy, UK, Ukraine, Russia)
Asia: 6 (India, Philippines, China, Korea, Pakistan, Vietnam)
Americas: 4 (Mexico, Guatemala, Ecuador, Canada)

Boston: 15
Europe: 3 (UK, Portugal, Italy)
Africa: 1 (Cabo Verde)
Asia: 4 (China, India, Vietnam, Korea)
Americas: 7 (Dominican Republic, Brazil, Haiti, El Salvador, Guatemala, Canada, Colombia)

Here's what happens when you bump it up to the 30,000 threshold for selected North American cities:

New York 35 (Europe: 9, Africa: 3, Asia: 9, Americas: 14)
Toronto 20 (Europe: 7, Asia: 9, Americas: 4)
Los Angeles 19 (Europe: 1, Asia: 10, Americas: 8)
Miami 14 (all in the Americas)
Washington 12 (Africa: 1, Asia: 5, America: 6)
Bay Area 12 (Europe: 1, Asia: 7, Americas: 4)
Houston 8 (Asia: 4, Americas: 4)
Montreal 7 (Europe: 2, Africa: 2, Asia: 2, Americas: 1)
Vancouver 7 (Europe: 1, Asia: 5, Americas: 1)
Chicago 6 (Europe: 1, Asia: 4, Americas: 1)
Seattle 6-7 (Asia: 5, Americas: 1-2)
Boston 5 (Asia: 2, Americas: 3)
Atlanta 4-5 (Asia: 2-3, Americas: 2)
Philadelphia 4 (Asia: 2, Americas: 2)
Detroit 3-4 (Asia: 2, Americas: 1-2)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Parhe

Toronto is overestimated here. But someone else did make a good point. If Toronto was part of the US, how much of the rest of Canada would be as well? I was going on the idea of just Southern Canada being part of the US, excluding the area around Ottawa. If all of Ontario was part of the US, however, I would say Toronto is solidly within the top 8, possibly higher, instead of the top 10,since it would have a larger region of influence.

Also, while diversity is nice, it doesn't really have to do with being world class or important, just look as Tokyo or Seoul, important cities which are interesting but also very homogenous.

Toronto, assuming only southern Ontario bar Ottawa region is part of the US, would probably rank after Boston, DFW, Houston, and Philadelphia. Toronto isn't as large as many Americans think it is and, truth is, many American cities are larger than many Americans think they are.

Yeah if Canada were part of the US then Toronto would cease to be as important as it is now--its way too close to NYC.

BC and Alberta would be part of the West, Manitoba and Saskatchewan would be Midwest and the rest of Canada would be Northeast i.e New York's kingdom

Lol

[Atticman]

Originally Posted by Parhe

Toronto isn't as large as many Americans think it is and, truth is, many American cities are larger than many Americans think they are.

City proper of 2.8 million. Metro (Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa) of 7.2 million. Greater Golden Horseshoe is now at least 9.3 million. Growing rapidly at 100,000 per year. Toronto is more likely to be larger than most Americans think it is.