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View Poll Results: Where would Toronto place among US cities in terms of significance?
3rd 12 17.91%
4th 20 29.85%
5th 11 16.42%
6th 7 10.45%
7th 7 10.45%
8th 5 7.46%
Other 5 7.46%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-05-2016, 06:10 PM
 
1,829 posts, read 1,250,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey joe-joe View Post
It got really confusing in Canada and the province of Ontario after 1998, but basically you need to be continuously adjacent with a lower-tier municipality of at least 100,000. If you are a single-tier municipality you cannot be included, hence why a large city like Hamilton is not included in the Toronto census metro-area despite being continuously adjacent with adjoined cities.

In America, that wouldn't be the case. They would just lump in Hamilton the same way that the New York (city) metro lumps in a bunch of Connecticut, Pennsylvania, etc, despite being under different jurisdiction. I mean the New York (city) metro area has more people in it than the entire population of New York (state), for Pete's sake.

So, by American definition, the Toronto metro would essentially be what we in Canada call the "Golden Horseshoe" which had almost 8.8 million people in 2011. I can only imagine it's almost at 9.5 now...
Isn't that only if the commuter pattern thing is met? Anyway, thanks for the information. I think I am a little too dim to completely understand but it helps.
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Old 10-05-2016, 06:11 PM
 
150 posts, read 146,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
The reason NYC metro goes into different States is because NYC is literally right on the NJ border, and also very close to CT and PA. NYC is closer to those States than the majority of NY State. NYC has more in common with those areas than the majority of New York State. State borders don't mean much when talking about metro area for border cities.

Philly does the same thing since it is also on the NJ border, and close to DE. DC is not in a State so its metro area goes into Virginia and Maryland





FYI:
KINGS county = Brooklyn
NEW YORK county = Manhattan
RICHMOND county = Staten Island.
Bronx and Queens are self-explanatory
Yes, I know this... I just made that example, to give some light into what the metro of Toronto is going by the American definition of a metropolitan area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
Isn't that only if the commuter pattern thing is met? Anyway, thanks for the information. I think I am a little too dim to completely understand but it helps.

No.

Essentially, in 2001, Ontario enacted the Municipal Act. For whatever reason they broke all the cities in Ontario down into these seemingly arbitrary definitions and tiers of "municipalities" and "regional districts" that weren't based on the size of the city, or commuting pattern. It was just bureaucratic non-sense and made things confusing for no reason. I think mostly to make things easier for school districts and police districts.

Now when Canada takes a Federal census they lump Ontario "municipalities" in these really odd ways because there is no equivalent for it in the rest of Canada, let alone America. So basically, trying to compare a Canadian metro to an American metro is comparing apples to oranges, but if you go by the more liberal American definition of a metro Toronto would be at roughly 9.5 million people i.e., the Golden Horseshoe.

Last edited by joey joe-joe; 10-05-2016 at 06:19 PM..
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Old 10-05-2016, 06:47 PM
 
1,630 posts, read 3,595,165 times
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Another quirk of Canadian Census Metropolitan Areas as defined by Statistics Canada is that once a place becomes a CMA, it can never be absorbed by another adjacent larger CMA, so therefore the Oshawa and Hamilton CMA's will always remain separate from the Toronto CMA even though they long ago all grew together to form a single urbanized area.

Due to the limitations of the Toronto CMA designation, the Greater Toronto Area is now a common moniker for the metropolitan region, it includes the City proper and 4 surrounding suburban regional municipalities of York, Durham (which includes the Oshawa CMA), Peel and Halton (which includes the Hamilton suburb of Burlington, but not the City of Hamilton). It currently has an estimated population of 6.7 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Toronto_Area

The Greater Toronto-Hamilton Area is the most recent designation for the area, and is becoming increasingly used in discussion of the needs and growth of the broader metropolitan area. It currently stands at approx. 7.2 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greate..._Hamilton_Area

To go beyond this level one would then be discussing the inner core of the Golden Horseshoe, which also includes Niagara Region, and then finally the Extended Greater Golden Horseshoe which includes a further ring of surrounding CMAs, and smaller cities and towns which are connected to Toronto via Go Transit's commuter rail and bus network. The inner Golden Horseshoe is at 7.65 million, and the extended GGH is at 9.35 million.


Last edited by Atticman; 10-05-2016 at 06:58 PM..
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Old 10-05-2016, 07:26 PM
 
1,829 posts, read 1,250,388 times
Reputation: 1822
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey joe-joe View Post
Yes, I know this... I just made that example, to give some light into what the metro of Toronto is going by the American definition of a metropolitan area.




No.

Essentially, in 2001, Ontario enacted the Municipal Act. For whatever reason they broke all the cities in Ontario down into these seemingly arbitrary definitions and tiers of "municipalities" and "regional districts" that weren't based on the size of the city, or commuting pattern. It was just bureaucratic non-sense and made things confusing for no reason. I think mostly to make things easier for school districts and police districts.

Now when Canada takes a Federal census they lump Ontario "municipalities" in these really odd ways because there is no equivalent for it in the rest of Canada, let alone America. So basically, trying to compare a Canadian metro to an American metro is comparing apples to oranges, but if you go by the more liberal American definition of a metro Toronto would be at roughly 9.5 million people i.e., the Golden Horseshoe.
I was talking about in America.
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Old 10-05-2016, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
1,609 posts, read 1,106,810 times
Reputation: 1903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
City proper of 2.8 million. Metro (Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa) of 7.2 million. Greater Golden Horseshoe is now at least 9.3 million. Growing rapidly at 100,000 per year. Toronto is more likely to be larger than most Americans think it is.
The Greater Greater Greater Greater Greater Greater Greater Golden Horseshoe is not a CSA. It is much, much larger than a CSA. There are areas of the Golden Horseshoe farther from Toronto than Chicago-Milwaukee.

Travel time w/o traffic:
Toronto to Fort Erie, Niagara Region: 90 minutes (considered Golden Horseshoe)
Toronto to Peterborough: 86 minutes (considered Golden Horseshoe)
Toronto to Kawartha Lakes: 94 minutes (considered Golden Horseshoe)
Toronto to Orillia: 91 minutes (considered Golden Horseshoe)

Chicago to Milwaukee (2,046,692 people): 85 minutes (not part of Chicago CSA)
Chicago to South Bend (725,065 people): 92 minutes (not part of Chicago CSA)

San Francisco to Sacramento (2,544,026 people): 82 minutes

If you want to say Toronto has 9.3 million people, then you need to also state upfront that Chicago, by the same measure has 12.6 million, and San Francisco has 11.2 million. Or, take out Niagara, Northumberland, Kawartha Lakes, Peterborough and the outer parts of the Golden Horseshoe. Claiming Toronto has a CSA equivalent of 9,300,000 is disingenous.

The Golden Horseshoe is a marketing gimmick. It is not based on commuter patterns or any statistics or data for that matter. It was specifically designed to boost the visibility of Toronto by inflating its population. In no way, shape, or form is it equivalent to a CSA.
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Old 10-05-2016, 09:40 PM
 
22 posts, read 15,288 times
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Was wondering when Manitopiaaa would show up....like a moth to a flame.
Your obsession with Toronto is fascinating.
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Old 10-05-2016, 10:07 PM
 
150 posts, read 146,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewara19 View Post
Was wondering when Manitopiaaa would show up....like a moth to a flame.
Your obsession with Toronto is fascinating.
I'm thoroughly under the belief that a Torontonian with gigantic genitalia stole his girlfriend back in high school, and then made him watch. It's literally the only logical conclusion.





And in regards to his dis-info about the Golden Horseshoe... The idea of using commute times is so pathetic and laughably disingenuous... Anyway folks -- it's core is essentially the same physical size as the listed Chicago metropolitan area that contains Chicago's purposed 9.5 million people...
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
1,609 posts, read 1,106,810 times
Reputation: 1903
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewara19 View Post
Was wondering when Manitopiaaa would show up....like a moth to a flame.
Your obsession with Toronto is fascinating.
Do you have a crush on me or something ewara? Your obession with me is fascinating.
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
1,609 posts, read 1,106,810 times
Reputation: 1903
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey joe-joe View Post
I'm thoroughly under the belief that a Torontonian with gigantic genitalia stole his girlfriend back in high school, and then made him watch. It's literally the only logical conclusion.





And in regards to his dis-info about the Golden Horseshoe... The idea of using commute times is so pathetic and laughably disingenuous... Anyway folks -- it's core is essentially the same physical size as the listed Chicago metropolitan area that contains Chicago's purposed 9.5 million people...
That's your counter? I'm disappointed. I expected more data. The truth is that the Golden Horseshoe is a marketing gimmick. The borders are fixed and do not actually align with commuter flows. It's a nice way to inflate Toronto's numbers, but means little beyond that. It's certainly not equivalent to a CSA.
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Maryland
4,265 posts, read 5,477,295 times
Reputation: 4594
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
The Greater Greater Greater Greater Greater Greater Greater Golden Horseshoe is not a CSA. It is much, much larger than a CSA. There are areas of the Golden Horseshoe farther from Toronto than Chicago-Milwaukee.

Travel time w/o traffic:
Toronto to Fort Erie, Niagara Region: 90 minutes (considered Golden Horseshoe)
Toronto to Peterborough: 86 minutes (considered Golden Horseshoe)
Toronto to Kawartha Lakes: 94 minutes (considered Golden Horseshoe)
Toronto to Orillia: 91 minutes (considered Golden Horseshoe)

Chicago to Milwaukee (2,046,692 people): 85 minutes (not part of Chicago CSA)
Chicago to South Bend (725,065 people): 92 minutes (not part of Chicago CSA)

San Francisco to Sacramento (2,544,026 people): 82 minutes

If you want to say Toronto has 9.3 million people, then you need to also state upfront that Chicago, by the same measure has 12.6 million, and San Francisco has 11.2 million. Or, take out Niagara, Northumberland, Kawartha Lakes, Peterborough and the outer parts of the Golden Horseshoe. Claiming Toronto has a CSA equivalent of 9,300,000 is disingenous.

The Golden Horseshoe is a marketing gimmick. It is not based on commuter patterns or any statistics or data for that matter. It was specifically designed to boost the visibility of Toronto by inflating its population. In no way, shape, or form is it equivalent to a CSA.
lol greater greater greater golden horshoe

Doesn't the southern tip of Lake Michigan from Mke through Chicago and to Grand Rapids also form a golden "horseshoe" of sorts? Or is that the greater greater greater greater golden horshoe...?
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