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Old 10-14-2016, 07:42 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
NYC too, while the rents are super high, the median household income is only 51k. Huge swaths of the city are predominately occupied by lower income people.
Yes, but residents of wealthy areas like the UES don't want lower income people living next to them.

American cities have been segregated socioeconomically like that for a long time. It is not going to change anytime soon.
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Old 10-14-2016, 07:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Yes, but residents of wealthy areas like the UES don't want lower income people living next to them.

American cities have been segregated socioeconomically like that for a long time. It is not going to change anytime soon.
The UES abuts housing projects on its northern end. Yorkville, the Easternmost portion of the UES has been fairly middle-class for as long as I can remember. Manhattan just isn't big enough to afford the wealthy much geographic isolation from the poor and middle-class.
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Old 10-14-2016, 03:05 PM
 
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Well it would be nice if we lived in a utopia where members of all socioeconomic classes could coexist without any social issues. The reality of it is that there is a correlation between low income areas and issues like drugs and crime. People who are educated and wealthy know this and decide to live apart from this in places where they can have a higher quality of life for them and their family. And because they have the means to do so they separate themselves. It may not be a good thing per se, but the reality of it is that no sane person wants to live in a place where their children can be a victim of a stray bullet from gang violence or where their schools and playgrounds have drug deals going on, if they don't have to. Not sure why that's a controversial idea considering many posters in here have families to take into consideration
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Old 10-14-2016, 03:16 PM
 
7,702 posts, read 4,557,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mantegna View Post
Well it would be nice if we lived in a utopia where members of all socioeconomic classes could coexist without any social issues. The reality of it is that there is a correlation between low income areas and issues like drugs and crime. People who are educated and wealthy know this and decide to live apart from this in places where they can have a higher quality of life for them and their family. And because they have the means to do so they separate themselves. It may not be a good thing per se, but the reality of it is that no sane person wants to live in a place where their children can be a victim of a stray bullet from gang violence or where their schools and playgrounds have drug deals going on, if they don't have to. Not sure why that's a controversial idea considering many posters in here have families to take into consideration
There is zero correlation between low income and drug use, and this is a paranoid, extreme example. I live in a city with plenty of socioeconomic diversity, and I don't live anywhere near shoot-outs or stray bullets.
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Old 10-14-2016, 03:31 PM
 
5,835 posts, read 10,781,623 times
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Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
There seems to be this perception by a lot of people on the board that certain cities becoming almost exclusively high income/high education is a positive. I've seen people say that they like certain cities because the populations are so educated and affluent.
Socioeconomic diversity is a major challenge to deal with. So much resources go into things, that could be invested in other things. I'm not being insensitive or anything - I do have empathy for the downtrodden, but it really can drag down a cities potential. Major income inequalities generally lead to more social problems as a whole.

Look at Scandinavia, New Zealand other western European countries they are able to be the envy because social programs, (education, etc.) that inevitably result from less socioeconomic diversity. Greater socioeconomic diversity lead to tensions, communist uprisings, etc.

I think education is a huge one. Public schools work better when students come in with families where the income and education of parents are more or less similar.
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Old 10-14-2016, 03:55 PM
 
135 posts, read 94,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
There is zero correlation between low income and drug use, and this is a paranoid, extreme example. I live in a city with plenty of socioeconomic diversity, and I don't live anywhere near shoot-outs or stray bullets.
There is definitely a positive correlation between poverty and crime. So it stands to reason that people view the prevalence of poverty and the prevalence of crime to be interconnected. There may be outliers, and you may live in one, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Obviously my example is extreme, but you're more likely to be a victim of crime in a place where half the population is poor than where the entire population is wealthy, that isn't arguable. So when people are taking the well being of their family into account, they're going to go towards the latter community than the former. Again, I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's an unfortunate side effect of living in a society where income inequality is enormous
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:25 PM
 
Location: New York NY
4,264 posts, read 6,344,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mantegna View Post
There is definitely a positive correlation between poverty and crime. So it stands to reason that people view the prevalence of poverty and the prevalence of crime to be interconnected. There may be outliers, and you may live in one, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Obviously my example is extreme, but you're more likely to be a victim of crime in a place where half the population is poor than where the entire population is wealthy, that isn't arguable. So when people are taking the well being of their family into account, they're going to go towards the latter community than the former. Again, I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's an unfortunate side effect of living in a society where income inequality is enormous
My thinking is that the big link isn't between poverty and crime, but concentrated poverty and crime. It's why the projects can be hell, but crime rates are often lower where poor suburban and rural folks are. There just isn't the critical mass. It's why studies show that kids taken from the hood and raised in middle class areas almost always do better than their counterparts left behind.

Unfortunately, many white middle class Americans don't get this and see attempts at integration as lowering their QOL, even when it is carefully managed in mixed income buildings or through school integration plans. The poor are way better off while the middle class retains the status quo. But these folks don't quite believe that and become hysterical at the poor, who are often black and brown in big cities, getting even the tiniest foothold in their neighborhoods.
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:32 PM
 
11,456 posts, read 6,575,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
The UES abuts housing projects on its northern end. Yorkville, the Easternmost portion of the UES has been fairly middle-class for as long as I can remember. Manhattan just isn't big enough to afford the wealthy much geographic isolation from the poor and middle-class.
I was gonna say, there are tons of poor people just one neighborhood to the North of the UES
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