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View Poll Results: What states do you consider Southwestern?
Arizona 96 96.97%
California 34 34.34%
Colorado 20 20.20%
Hawaii 1 1.01%
Kansas 1 1.01%
Nevada 47 47.47%
New Mexico 96 96.97%
Oklahoma 21 21.21%
Texas 36 36.36%
Utah 29 29.29%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2016, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
742 posts, read 719,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
Oklahoma is Southern culturally , linguistically, and demographically. It has more in common with the South than with any other region. It has little in common with the Southwest and little in common with the Midwest. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.
Rather than it being black and white, Oklahoma is more of a gradient. Northern Oklahoma shares similarities with the Midwest culturally, linguistically, and demographically. The same goes for eastern Oklahoma with the South.



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Old 10-17-2016, 01:59 PM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere
8,965 posts, read 4,103,404 times
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^^^ You have to look at the culture where the people live. Most of the population resides in the very Southern eastern half of the state. Tulsa is a Southern city with a hint of Midwestern influence. To me, Tulsa feels quite a bit like a larger Little Rock, Arkansas. Oklahoma City is a solidly Southern town closely tied with the Fort Smith region of Arkansas culturally. The far western part of the state is more Southwestern but few people live there. Same with the far northern part of the state (and even then, the culture changes to being more Midwestern very quickly when you cross into Kansas).
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
742 posts, read 719,916 times
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I just don't feel the same way. Hailing from Little Dixie and having been all over most of Oklahoma, OKC and northward feel more Midwestern to me (linguistically and culturally) and more so than Tulsa while Tulsa feels more southern.
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:36 PM
 
1,829 posts, read 1,250,388 times
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I consider the Gadsden Purchase, Mexican Cession, and the Republic of Texas as the Southwest, so Arizona, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, and possibly Colorado (I'm not sure how much of Colorado came from the above). I base geographic regions based on history (same reason I still consider Maryland part of the South) and believe regions can overlap, meaning, for example, there is no problem with Texas being part of the South and Southwest or California being part of the Southwest and West Coast.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,060 posts, read 3,381,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
^^^ You have to look at the culture where the people live. Most of the population resides in the very Southern eastern half of the state. Tulsa is a Southern city with a hint of Midwestern influence. To me, Tulsa feels quite a bit like a larger Little Rock, Arkansas. Oklahoma City is a solidly Southern town closely tied with the Fort Smith region of Arkansas culturally. The far western part of the state is more Southwestern but few people live there. Same with the far northern part of the state (and even then, the culture changes to being more Midwestern very quickly when you cross into Kansas).
Umm looking at a population density map shows most people live in the CENTRAL part of the state, which is geographically the Great Plains and resembles more of Texas or southern Kansas.

Idk why people think Southwestern=only desert.

Southwestern can also include the slightly greener but still wide and open plains that include much of TX and OK.

We allow the Southeast to include the swamps of Louisiana and Florida AND the mountains of North Carolina and Tennessee but the Southwest has to all look like Arizona and New Mexico? And the people have to all act the same?

The way I see it, Texas and Oklahoma are both Southern but not SouthEASTERN. Southern and Southwestern.

Where as Arizona is Southwestern, but not Southern.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:11 PM
 
2,825 posts, read 3,266,381 times
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If you're from Oklahoma City and visit states like Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, or South Carolina and call yourself a southerner, expect to receive some laughs in your face. Oklahoma didn't EXIST during the Civil War, for one. Maybe you'll see some Confederate flags, but you can also see plenty of those in rural Pennsylvania. No SEC schools in Oklahoma, either. It's also too far west, even Arkansas is a stretch. Please, there may be some southern (Ozark-ish) influence in that state but there's also a lot of Midwestern influence. I'll admit Oklahoma is a bit like Texas in many ways, but even Texas is in a separate category away from the South and that's probably the way Texans want it.

Getting off-topic so I'm just going to leave this here and move along.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,060 posts, read 3,381,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayneMo View Post
No, not really. Save for a few tribes, such as the Apache and Plains tribes, much of Oklahoma's tribes come from the eastern half of the US.

Geographically, however, I would say western Oklahoma shares similarities to the Southwest.
They may have come from the East but they were placed in Oklahoma. Sadly, in modern times, the Native population of the eastern United States have been eradicated for the most part and the biggest remnants of their culture, is the names of towns and rivers in some states. The majority of American Indians in the year 2016 lives in the western half of the United States. http://www.educationworld.com/a_imag...lation_map.gif They may have Eastern heritage but they've been living west of the Mississippi for generations now. Just like we wouldn't say that New Jersey is part of the Mediterranean just because a lot of its population originally came from Italy. Native Americans born and raised in Oklahoma will be more influenced by the environment of where they actually live, than where their original tribes came from.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:18 PM
 
80 posts, read 80,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayneMo View Post
Overall, Oklahoma was more evenly settled among those from the South as well as from the Midwest, within northern/northwestern/western Oklahoma being more Midwestern and southern/southeastern/eastern Oklahoma being more from the South, coinciding with the boundaries of Oklahoma Territory and Indian Territory.

'Settlers of Oklahoma Territory, however, tended to come from the Midwest or upper Midwest. Of the settlers in the Land Run of 1889, for example, 50 percent were from Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, or Ohio, and 10 percent were from Texas and another 10 percent from Kentucky or Tennessee, states representative of the Southern or South Midland dialect areas. In all of the land run areas, settlers were typically from the upper or lower Midwest, although individual land runs show variation. The 1892 Cheyenne-Arapaho Opening, for instance, tended to divide into eastern and western halves, with sparsely populated counties such as Roger Mills having a considerably greater percentage of southerners (almost 80 percent) than the more densely populated counties to the east, such as Blaine, which had only 32 percent from the South.'

From www.okhistory.org
The southern half of the Oklahoma Territory (the non-land run areas) was settled mostly by Southerners, which made the distribution of settlers in the O.T. roughly half Southerners and half non-Southerners. The part of the state that remained Indian Territory until 1907 was mostly settled by Southerners (white, black, 5 civilized tribes). At statehood the distribution of Southerners to Northerners in Oklahoma (overall) would have been 2:1 and maybe even 3:1. Soon after statehood a cosmopolitan mix of Northerners flocked to Tulsa during the oil boom, and across Oklahoma many Southern sharecroppers migrated to the state looking for work.

And to the poster who claims there's no Confederate heritage in Oklahoma, I would assume you weren't hanging around the state capitol when the Confederate Battle Flag adorned one of the flagpoles, and probably haven't noticed the current Oklahoma History Center's Confederate flag that remains flying. Perhaps a little reading on Oklahoma's history will shine some light on why Oklahoma is Oklahoma.

Oklahoma is the only postbellum Southern state, IMO. Historically we were consistently referred to as Southwestern, but that used to include Arkansas and Louisiana (and Tennessee before that), and reflects how definitions of regions have changed over time, specifically how the Southwest today is perceived to be a distinct region from the South.

How a state "feels" is a particularly capricious method of categorizing a state into a region. The South is a region based on culture, not Kudzu, and being from one of those dry, heavily Baptist, twang talking, Oklahoma small towns chalk-full of cotton and cowboys alike, I am consistently baffled to be thrown into a general and vague "Midwest" category because y'all think the way the landscape looks is more important than Oklahoma not having a star on the Confederate flag. There's nothing wrong with the Midwest, but I would feel like a liar to call myself a Midwesterner.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:36 PM
 
80 posts, read 80,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB View Post
If you're from Oklahoma City and visit states like Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, or South Carolina and call yourself a southerner, expect to receive some laughs in your face. Oklahoma didn't EXIST during the Civil War, for one. Maybe you'll see some Confederate flags, but you can also see plenty of those in rural Pennsylvania. No SEC schools in Oklahoma, either. It's also too far west, even Arkansas is a stretch. Please, there may be some southern (Ozark-ish) influence in that state but there's also a lot of Midwestern influence. I'll admit Oklahoma is a bit like Texas in many ways, but even Texas is in a separate category away from the South and that's probably the way Texans want it.

Getting off-topic so I'm just going to leave this here and move along.
And so did the people from Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi who settled Oklahoma suddenly cease being Southerners simply because they moved to Oklahoma? And what about all the communities where their Oklahoma-born children kept Southern accent, religion, agriculture, and general culture alive, are they suddenly deserving of a non-Southern label just because the community came into existence after the Civil War?

I don't disagree with you that Oklahoma (and Texas) are different from North Carolina and even Mississippi, but it's not an issue of Southern vs. non-Southern, it's a matter of divergence within the South. It's how and why people became different from their families over the course of a few generations, because that's exactly what has happened in Oklahoma (and Texas) in the last 50 years.
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Old 10-17-2016, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,927 posts, read 6,856,300 times
Reputation: 5855
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB View Post
If you're from Oklahoma City and visit states like Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, or South Carolina and call yourself a southerner, expect to receive some laughs in your face. Oklahoma didn't EXIST during the Civil War, for one. Maybe you'll see some Confederate flags, but you can also see plenty of those in rural Pennsylvania. No SEC schools in Oklahoma, either. It's also too far west, even Arkansas is a stretch. Please, there may be some southern (Ozark-ish) influence in that state but there's also a lot of Midwestern influence. I'll admit Oklahoma is a bit like Texas in many ways, but even Texas is in a separate category away from the South and that's probably the way Texans want it.

Getting off-topic so I'm just going to leave this here and move along.
Arkansas, and Oklahoma east of US 75 are definitely Southern. Tulsa is at the western edge of what I consider "The South"
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