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Old 10-25-2016, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,927 posts, read 6,856,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
It's not about medians, though. People in the middle aren't buying. It's about sheer volume of people in that 1%. There are, quite simply more people who can afford to spend a million dollars in cities like NY, LA, Boston and SF. I don't think one can say that Boston, DC or Seattle is objectively more desirable than Philly, but housing prices follow the money.
SF and LA have the draw of nearly flawless weather, which is what I'm sure keeps the lower and middle classes there. And NY has the world class public transit, entertainment and other amenities, Boston is pretty much the higher education hub of the country, Washington is HQ's for the federal govt, and Seattle is a tech hub like SF, and still also overall has climate as a draw.
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,572 posts, read 17,553,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
SO, this is really kind of funny. I've never owned a pick-up truck, feel extremely lucky to have a beautiful yard to mow, and I'm pretty sure people on the coasts shop at Costco, as well. Either that, or all the many, many located on the coasts, will be going out of business, soon. Too bad you feel it necessary to stoop to stereotyping to try to make your point. You might find it interesting, that after Texas, California sells the most pick-up trucks, and that's the reality. California is the number one agricultural state, so it makes sense. BTW, don't you mow your yards on the coasts?
The point isn't about pickup trucks, mowers, or warehouse stores themselves, but they're symbolic of the vast cultural gulf between rich, metropolitan coastal areas and most of Middle America.

If you're living in a small apartment in a coastal metro, where are you going to store the big bulk items you'd get at a Costco? You really can't - at least not many of them in the sense someone with a larger house could. Those cousins I have in NYC don't even have a vehicle - it seems far fetched that people with this kind of a lifestyle will rent a vehicle and buy a Costco membership to get stuff from there.

Need something delivered or hauled away? Often someone in a smaller living space, again, more likely on the coasts, will pay to have something delivered or hauled off. Virtually everyone I know either owns a pickup (even if it's an old junker) for projects around the house, or knows someone where they can get reasonable access to a truck. A lot of coastal residents in urban areas would never consider owning a pickup or see the need for it.

People who don't own homes with yards likely don't mow. The larger yard you have, the more you'll need to mow. These are going to be unfamiliar to urban coastal residents.
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:55 AM
 
2,001 posts, read 1,015,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The point isn't about pickup trucks, mowers, or warehouse stores themselves, but they're symbolic of the vast cultural gulf between rich, metropolitan coastal areas and most of Middle America.

If you're living in a small apartment in a coastal metro, where are you going to store the big bulk items you'd get at a Costco? You really can't - at least not many of them in the sense someone with a larger house could. Those cousins I have in NYC don't even have a vehicle - it seems far fetched that people with this kind of a lifestyle will rent a vehicle and buy a Costco membership to get stuff from there.

Need something delivered or hauled away? Often someone in a smaller living space, again, more likely on the coasts, will pay to have something delivered or hauled off. Virtually everyone I know either owns a pickup (even if it's an old junker) for projects around the house, or knows someone where they can get reasonable access to a truck. A lot of coastal residents in urban areas would never consider owning a pickup or see the need for it.

People who don't own homes with yards likely don't mow. The larger yard you have, the more you'll need to mow. These are going to be unfamiliar to urban coastal residents.
Your logic about Costco is flawed. There are many Costco stores located on the coasts, and I'm betting they do well, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Not sure if it's the people cramped in small apartments that are buying at Costco on the coasts, but someone is surely keeping those stores in business.

I guess, if you want to live life cramped in a small apartment, rather than have a lovely yard to mow, that's up to the individual. Sounds miserable, to me.

As far as a pick-up truck, rental trucks do a huge business in the Midwest, too, so not everyone owns a truck.

Not everyone on the coasts is rich...please tell me you don't assume that. There are enclaves, just as there are around the entire country. Tell me that people who live in Stockton, Bakersfield, and a vast host of other cities, are wealthier than most in the Midwest. There are wealthy, poor, and mostly in between everywhere in this country, and I'm not blind enough to assume that everyone who lives on the coasts is wealthy, and living the life. I'll attach pics, if you want me to. Just let me know.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:10 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,235 posts, read 19,536,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
Your logic about Costco is flawed. There are many Costco stores located on the coasts, and I'm betting they do well, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Not sure if it's the people cramped in small apartments that are buying at Costco on the coasts, but someone is surely keeping those stores in business.
I do some of my shopping at Costco. It's more economical to buy things in bulk when you have young children. Diapers are much less expensive, for example.

Not everything at Costco is of good quality though. You have to know what to get.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:12 AM
 
473 posts, read 358,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
My point was that people are willing to pay $500+ per sq ft in "The Big 6" as I call them (Boston, NYC, Washington, LA, Bay Area and Seattle), but no one in any significant numbers would pay that price per sq ft in Chicago let alone Kansas City or Dallas

For reference, that would be $1,000,000+ for a 2,000 sq ft house
Well, why would you?? If I lived in Kansas or Chicago, I wouldn't have paid what I did for my house in San Francisco simply because there are other options. A $1 million house is pretty much entry level is Silicon Valley.

At any rate, I'm not sure stagnant home prices is something the OP should brag about. Conversely, while there's a little bit of supply and demand at play, it's not really about the coasts being more desireable. It's that the coasts have job markets that are better positioned in a knowledge-based economy. The collapse of manufacturing has hit Middle America hard -- some cities have retained their relevance and others have languished. And certainly if you look at cities like Denver, Austin, Nashville, home prices are increasingly dramatically alongside tech and healthcare job growth. Those cities have more room to sprawl (unlike NY and SF) but it sure feels like a party in those places.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:21 AM
 
Location: The Springs
1,770 posts, read 2,137,928 times
Reputation: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
My point was that people are willing to pay $500+ per sq ft in "The Big 6" as I call them (Boston, NYC, Washington, LA, Bay Area and Seattle), but no one in any significant numbers would pay that price per sq ft in Chicago let alone Kansas City or Dallas

For reference, that would be $1,000,000+ for a 2,000 sq ft house
It is amazing. Folks moving to Denver for work are buying property in North Colorado Springs and taking the one hour+ commute.

I'd have to put a pencil to see what the ROI is on paying $125/sf in the Springs vs. $200+ in Denver. Seems like an awful toll on your time, auto and lifestyle.

And these aren't small houses they're buying. Talking 3500 sf or more.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,258 posts, read 26,231,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Because people with the money to pay higher prices don't see any value in "Middle America", hence why prices stay reasonable in say Mississippi and Kansas for example
That doesn't answer the question of why the effects of monetary policy would not be more or less regionally uniform.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,927 posts, read 6,856,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kar54 View Post
It is amazing. Folks moving to Denver for work are buying property in North Colorado Springs and taking the one hour+ commute.

I'd have to put a pencil to see what the ROI is on paying $125/sf in the Springs vs. $200+ in Denver. Seems like an awful toll on your time, auto and lifestyle.

And these aren't small house they're buying. Talking 3500 sf or more.
I refuse to commute more than 10 miles myself, hence I live in the city rather than the burbs, in an apartment of course, but it beats being stuck in traffic, especially considering I drive for a living (semi trailer), so the less driving I have to do when off work, the better
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,927 posts, read 6,856,300 times
Reputation: 5855
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
That doesn't answer the question of why the effects of monetary policy would not be more or less regionally uniform.
The answer is because investors know that demand is lower in middle america than the Big 6, or even SD, Portland or Miami; they aren't going to try to flip in a place with stagnant or falling demand.

The other answer is middle america isn't supply constrained like the coastal metros
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,572 posts, read 17,553,447 times
Reputation: 27640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
Your logic about Costco is flawed. There are many Costco stores located on the coasts, and I'm betting they do well, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Not sure if it's the people cramped in small apartments that are buying at Costco on the coasts, but someone is surely keeping those stores in business.

I guess, if you want to live life cramped in a small apartment, rather than have a lovely yard to mow, that's up to the individual. Sounds miserable, to me.

As far as a pick-up truck, rental trucks do a huge business in the Midwest, too, so not everyone owns a truck.

Not everyone on the coasts is rich...please tell me you don't assume that. There are enclaves, just as there are around the entire country. Tell me that people who live in Stockton, Bakersfield, and a vast host of other cities, are wealthier than most in the Midwest. There are wealthy, poor, and mostly in between everywhere in this country, and I'm not blind enough to assume that everyone who lives on the coasts is wealthy, and living the life. I'll attach pics, if you want me to. Just let me know.
Of course the Costcos are doing well on the coasts, largely among affluent suburban populations living in larger homes. Their customer base aren't the well-off urban or the poor urban crammed into small units. The truly urban often look down at big box retail with disdain.

If someone is living in a small apartment, it may be all they can afford. It may be because they want closer proximity to work or the city scene. These reasons are all valid and there's nothing wrong with it. Regardless, someone who has lived and worked in urban NYC/SF/Boston etc., is going to have a vastly different lifestyle than people in much of the rest of the country. That's not putting a value judgment on it - it's a simple fact. But they're not going to fill up that 400 - 600 sq. ft space with bulk purchases from Costco. I moved to Indianapolis a few years ago for a job. Several of my colleagues were living in hip apartment complexes in the city and just bought a few things at a time at Whole Foods - they thought I was nuts for having a Costco membership, but to me, buying in bulk was routine.

Whether the pickup is bought or rented isn't really material - the main cultural difference is that someone in the coastal, urban areas probably doesn't own the truck nor will they rent one and do the work themselves - they will hire someone with a truck to perform the service. I've had some old furniture stored at my parents' house we hauled off recently after I moved back to Tennessee. We rented a pickup, but hauled the furniture to the dump ourselves.

The richest areas of the country, by far, tend to be urban, coastal areas. That's not saying that everyone in the rich, coastal cities is rich individually, or that everyone in flyover country is dead broke, but there is a definite difference of affluence between the elite coastal cities (BOSWASH corridor, most of the CA coastal cities/Portland/Seattle) and most of the rest of the country.
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