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Old 10-25-2016, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,924 posts, read 6,850,118 times
Reputation: 5841

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Of course the Costcos are doing well on the coasts, largely among affluent suburban populations living in larger homes. Their customer base aren't the well-off urban or the poor urban crammed into small units. The truly urban often look down at big box retail with disdain.

If someone is living in a small apartment, it may be all they can afford. It may be because they want closer proximity to work or the city scene. These reasons are all valid and there's nothing wrong with it. Regardless, someone who has lived and worked in urban NYC/SF/Boston etc., is going to have a vastly different lifestyle than people in much of the rest of the country. That's not putting a value judgment on it - it's a simple fact. But they're not going to fill up that 400 - 600 sq. ft space with bulk purchases from Costco. I moved to Indianapolis a few years ago for a job. Several of my colleagues were living in hip apartment complexes in the city and just bought a few things at a time at Whole Foods - they thought I was nuts for having a Costco membership, but to me, buying in bulk was routine.

Whether the pickup is bought or rented isn't really material - the main cultural difference is that someone in the coastal, urban areas probably doesn't own the truck nor will they rent one and do the work themselves - they will hire someone with a truck to perform the service. I've had some old furniture stored at my parents' house we hauled off recently after I moved back to Tennessee. We rented a pickup, but hauled the furniture to the dump ourselves.

The richest areas of the country, by far, tend to be urban, coastal areas. That's not saying that everyone in the rich, coastal cities is rich individually, or that everyone in flyover country is dead broke, but there is a definite difference of affluence between the elite coastal cities (BOSWASH corridor, most of the CA coastal cities/Portland/Seattle) and most of the rest of the country.
To the Costco point, I am a city dweller who lives in an apartment and has a Costco membership. Take advantage of their cheaper gasoline (especially since my car takes premium octane), and usually only buy what I can carry out with me, since they don't bag anything
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,556 posts, read 17,535,380 times
Reputation: 27596
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
The answer is because investors know that demand is lower in middle america than the Big 6, or even SD, Portland or Miami; they aren't going to try to flip in a place with stagnant or falling demand.

The other answer is middle america isn't supply constrained like the coastal metros
I've lived in TN, IA, and IN for at least a year apiece over the last five years. Des Moines and Indianapolis are far bigger/hotter than where I'm from in Tennessee, but none of these locations are in big demand, at least compared to the big coastal metros.

Go to the Seattle/Vancouver boards and you'll see complaints about Chinese investors buying up homes in the metro, doing nothing with them and essentially using them as a store of value, and that's restricting the supply of homes available to regular homeowners, leading prices to rise even further over what the regular demand would push them to. Combine real estate purchases by overseas buyers with overly restrictive building codes, "hip" cities, NIMBYism, and natural barriers to growth, and you have a recipe for out of control real estate markets. That doesn't mean those markets are unfairly valued, but they're expensive.

Yes, you can make money in real estate and rent in flyover country, but outside of a select few metros (Nashville, Austin, Denver, maybe a couple more) you aren't going to see the appreciation rates of the coastal areas. People aren't rushing to move to Indianapolis or St. Louis like they are to Seattle, you can build for fifty miles in any direction around Indy and hit nothing, and there aren't many outside factors to push up prices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
To the Costco point, I am a city dweller who lives in an apartment and has a Costco membership. Take advantage of their cheaper gasoline (especially since my car takes premium octane), and usually only buy what I can carry out with me, since they don't bag anything
There are times where it makes sense. I generally made the membership back in just gas and alcohol. But you're in Phoenix, not urban NYC or Boston or some place. You basically have to drive to get around.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:40 AM
 
2,017 posts, read 1,013,828 times
Reputation: 2662
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
To the Costco point, I am a city dweller who lives in an apartment and has a Costco membership. Take advantage of their cheaper gasoline (especially since my car takes premium octane), and usually only buy what I can carry out with me, since they don't bag anything
I don't consider your area to be coastal...do you? Just wondering, because based on your comments, you seem to include yourself as a "coastal" resident?
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,924 posts, read 6,850,118 times
Reputation: 5841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
I don't consider your area to be coastal...do you? Just wondering, because based on your comments, you seem to include yourself as a "coastal" resident?
No, obviously, but not quite "middle america" either. Phoenix and Las Vegas are kind of in a wierd position there, mainly due to being right next to California, and with most transplants coming from California. So we aren't SF or LA, but we aren't St Louis or Oklahoma City either.
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,924 posts, read 6,850,118 times
Reputation: 5841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I've lived in TN, IA, and IN for at least a year apiece over the last five years. Des Moines and Indianapolis are far bigger/hotter than where I'm from in Tennessee, but none of these locations are in big demand, at least compared to the big coastal metros.

Go to the Seattle/Vancouver boards and you'll see complaints about Chinese investors buying up homes in the metro, doing nothing with them and essentially using them as a store of value, and that's restricting the supply of homes available to regular homeowners, leading prices to rise even further over what the regular demand would push them to. Combine real estate purchases by overseas buyers with overly restrictive building codes, "hip" cities, NIMBYism, and natural barriers to growth, and you have a recipe for out of control real estate markets. That doesn't mean those markets are unfairly valued, but they're expensive.

Yes, you can make money in real estate and rent in flyover country, but outside of a select few metros (Nashville, Austin, Denver, maybe a couple more) you aren't going to see the appreciation rates of the coastal areas. People aren't rushing to move to Indianapolis or St. Louis like they are to Seattle, you can build for fifty miles in any direction around Indy and hit nothing, and there aren't many outside factors to push up prices.



There are times where it makes sense. I generally made the membership back in just gas and alcohol. But you're in Phoenix, not urban NYC or Boston or some place. You basically have to drive to get around.
We do have public transportation here, I live right off the light rail line myself
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:42 PM
 
539 posts, read 404,476 times
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I think the reason this election has happened the way it has is largely due to a rift between middle America and the so called elites on the coast. A place like NYC is unbelievably culturally different from anywhere in flyover country. Right now people in these large coastal cities are benefitting from an economy that has largely (and has been for 30 plus years) transformed into a service based economy. This plus the fact people in these big cities are looked at to be pretentious towards "flyover country" creates disdain. Basically cultural differences plus widening disparities of economic success between the big coastal cities and middle America have made it so it is almost 2 different countries.

(Live in Manhattan, originally from suburbia of a smaller city)
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Old 10-26-2016, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,556 posts, read 17,535,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelers1523 View Post
I think the reason this election has happened the way it has is largely due to a rift between middle America and the so called elites on the coast. A place like NYC is unbelievably culturally different from anywhere in flyover country. Right now people in these large coastal cities are benefitting from an economy that has largely (and has been for 30 plus years) transformed into a service based economy. This plus the fact people in these big cities are looked at to be pretentious towards "flyover country" creates disdain. Basically cultural differences plus widening disparities of economic success between the big coastal cities and middle America have made it so it is almost 2 different countries.

(Live in Manhattan, originally from suburbia of a smaller city)
Exactly. They're in touch with their own reality, but the vast majority of people in Middle America live very differently than the coastal elite.
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Old 10-26-2016, 06:39 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
1,161 posts, read 654,080 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Exactly. They're in touch with their own reality, but the vast majority of people in Middle America live very differently than the coastal elite.
Like it or not, those in "middle America" (or as Sarah Palin likes to say, "the real America") are going to have to adapt to the 21st Century economy or become permanently left behind and mired in a cycle of poverty. The regionalism and isolation of their way of life and culture (to be very generalized) doesn't jive with the globalized and interconnected America of the 21st Century.

Their anger and frustration reared its ugly head with Donald Trump.

For the record, while I grew up in a Northeastern state, it was very detached and isolated from any major city or big employment center. I left when I was 18, moved to a big coastal city, and never looked back.
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Old 10-26-2016, 07:20 AM
 
2,017 posts, read 1,013,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MB1562 View Post
Like it or not, those in "middle America" (or as Sarah Palin likes to say, "the real America") are going to have to adapt to the 21st Century economy or become permanently left behind and mired in a cycle of poverty. The regionalism and isolation of their way of life and culture (to be very generalized) doesn't jive with the globalized and interconnected America of the 21st Century.

Their anger and frustration reared its ugly head with Donald Trump.

For the record, while I grew up in a Northeastern state, it was very detached and isolated from any major city or big employment center. I left when I was 18, moved to a big coastal city, and never looked back.
You don't get out of your city, much, do you? It's too bad your elitism blinds you to the fact, that most of us in "middle America" are doing quite well. I know your intent is to sound all cosmopolitan and that, but you fail..miserably. Your post is almost laughable. No wait, it is.
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Old 10-26-2016, 07:28 AM
 
539 posts, read 404,476 times
Reputation: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Exactly. They're in touch with their own reality, but the vast majority of people in Middle America live very differently than the coastal elite.
The thing is the majority of Americans are not living in middle America, so whose to say the coastal people are the ones out of touch?
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