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We've been hopping around over the past 8 years and have lived in Durham, Atlanta, Seattle (also Bellevue), and now San Francisco. We like SF but are sick of how overpriced everything is and obviously there is no way to buy a house here. We'd like to find a city where we can settle down for a little while. We've been researching cities online for MONTHS but are still struggling because it's such an important decision (we've moved around so much already and it will be costly/bad for career/difficult to move yet again if we don't like the place, especially after buying a house).
Here are our preferred criteria and some information about us:
1) Weather is very important since we love spending time outside. I can't stand cold winters (like sub freezing) and summers that are so hot/humid that you can't go outside for months at a time don't really work either. In general we prefer warmer weather though. SF actually isn't great because it's constantly foggy/windy in the summer.. need some more sunshine
2) Walkability/transit/biking is very important. We've gotten used to not having to drive anywhere within the city and would like to maintain that. We do own a car but only use it for going out of the city or running car-required errands like going to Lowe's.
3) We are into good food and enjoy drinking so a foodie culture would be good (without being overly pretentious and overpriced like some of SF is becoming). Diverse, authentic ethnic cuisines and a range of cheap to expensive food options is ideal. Also want to be able to buy fresh seafood and produce any time of year.
4) Within a few hours of the city we like camping, going to parks and lakes/rivers (for picnicking, hiking, canoeing, etc.), and wine tasting. Overall enjoy nature so we don't to be somewhere surrounded by barren wasteland or just more city/suburbia.
5) We enjoy festivals (e.g. ethnic fests, state fairs, food/drinks fests), markets (e.g. farmers, flea), performances (e.g. musicals, comedy), live music (the chill kind, not super overcrowded concerts or festivals), and random events (e.g. outdoor movies). The city we move to should have a decent amount of events/activities year-round.
6) Other hobbies are board games, cats, video games, movies/TV/books (especially scifi/horror/fantasy), DIY food/drink (e.g. jerky, pickling, etc), DIY crafts (e.g. 3d printing, knitting), casual biking, cooking. We're on the nerdy side. Would be cool if there are some like-minded people.
7) In terms of vibe, we are laid back. The fast-paced, suit/stiletto wearing, materialistic, clubbing, NY-style culture is totally unappealing to us. More nerds/hipsters preferred over bros.
8) We are politically left-leaning, and while we appreciate diversity of opinions we prefer not to live somewhere with a large concentration of people who are not accepting of other religions, sexual orientations, ethnicities, ways of life, etc. Don't think we could bring ourselves to live in a county that voted Trump.
9) Our families are near Raleigh, North Carolina and Columbus, Ohio. Would be nice to be a bit closer to them (but not too close but not a requirement.
10) Relatedly, being close to a good airport is a definite plus. In addition to being easier to visit family, we like to travel and plan to do it fairly often.
11) We want to live in a neighborhood with some soul to it (both in looks/architecture and vibe/things to do), definitely not treeless cookie cutter suburbs. Want to be within city limits but have a backyard (even if it's small).
12) I am in tech so some availability of tech jobs would be great. BF is in accounting so theoretically should be able to find a job anywhere.
13) Obviously affordability is a factor, but we're fine with a small house and are willing to pay a little extra for good location. Anywhere will be wayyy cheaper than SF
14) There are friendly people everywhere, but it's easier to make friends some places than others (e.g. see Seattle Freeze). We're on the introverted side and would prefer to live somewhere where there are plenty of people around our age that are open to making new friendships (not just sticking to existing groups).
15) We have a dream to start a small business one day so ideally we'll find some place where that is relatively easy to do.
16) Finally, at some point in the future we will probably start a family so while this isn't a priority right now, wherever we move shouldn't be terrible for raising a family.
I know it's a lot and there's no such thing as the perfect city that will fulfill all of this, but hoping for something close.
Some that we have thought about, along with their top issues based on what we've heard/read, are listed below.
EDIT: this list does NOT mean that we have eliminated all these cities. Merely trying to start conversations about pros/cons and learn more about them. We are well aware that we will not be able to find a city that meets all our ideal criteria. It's just a question of which city meets them the closest.
*Sacramento - not a top city, not enough to do?, not foodie enough?, hard to find tech jobs, prices going up quickly, airport not great. However this is a top contender for us right now given the weather and its proximity to the Bay Area.
*Austin - too hot/humid, heard that it's already getting overcrowded
*Houston - too hot/humid, traffic, not sure if it's hip/cool enough, too 'Texas'
*Boulder/Denver - too cold
*Columbus/Cleveland - not hip/cool enough, too cold
*Atlanta - not walkable, landlocked
*Savannah/Charleston - not big enough cities
*LA/Santa Monica/Long Beach - smog/pollution, not walkable, traffic, expensive except in sketchy areas
*San Diego - expensive, also we visited and the vibe seemed kind of 'bro-ish' but maybe we didn't get a good enough sense
*Portland/Seattle - weather too gloomy/not enough sun
*Chicago/DC/Boston/Minneapolis/Philly/Pittsburg/other northeast cities - think they're too cold, but open to being proven wrong; fast-paced east coast vibe?
*Richmond/VA Beach - not big enough cities?
*RTP/Charlotte - not big/hip enough? Not walkable?
*Albuquerque - too inland, not great for diverse food, may as well move to Sacramento if we decide on this size city
Any advice is GREATLY appreciated. I didn't see any other threads that covered our specific criteria but if you know of some past threads that might be helpful, please point me to them.
We've been hopping around over the past 8 years and have lived in Durham, Atlanta, Seattle (also Bellevue), and now San Francisco. We like SF but are sick of how overpriced everything is and obviously there is no way to buy a house here. We'd like to find a city where we can settle down for a little while. We've been researching cities online for MONTHS but are still struggling because it's such an important decision (we've moved around so much already and it will be costly/bad for career/difficult to move yet again if we don't like the place, especially after buying a house).
Here are our criteria and some information about us:
1) Weather is very important since we love spending time outside. I can't stand cold winters (like sub freezing) and summers that are so hot/humid that you can't go outside for months at a time don't really work either. In general we prefer warmer weather though. SF actually isn't great because it's constantly foggy/windy in the summer.. need some more sunshine
2) Walkability/transit/biking is very important. We've gotten used to not having to drive anywhere within the city and would like to maintain that. We do own a car but only use it for going out of the city or running car-required errands like going to Lowe's.
3) We are into good food and enjoy drinking so a foodie culture would be good (without being overly pretentious and overpriced like some of SF is becoming). Diverse, authentic ethnic cuisines and a range of cheap to expensive food options is ideal. Also want to be able to buy fresh seafood and produce any time of year.
4) Within a few hours of the city we like camping, going to parks and lakes/rivers (for picnicking, hiking, canoeing, etc.), and wine tasting. Overall enjoy nature so we don't to be somewhere surrounded by barren wasteland or just more city/suburbia.
5) We enjoy festivals (e.g. ethnic fests, state fairs, food/drinks fests), markets (e.g. farmers, flea), performances (e.g. musicals, comedy), live music (the chill kind, not super overcrowded concerts or festivals), and random events (e.g. outdoor movies). The city we move to should have a decent amount of events/activities year-round.
6) Other hobbies are board games, cats, video games, movies/TV/books (especially scifi/horror/fantasy), DIY food/drink (e.g. jerky, pickling, etc), DIY crafts (e.g. 3d printing, knitting), casual biking, cooking. We're on the nerdy side. Would be cool if there are some like-minded people.
7) In terms of vibe, we are laid back. The fast-paced, suit/stiletto wearing, materialistic, clubbing, NY-style culture is totally unappealing to us. More nerds/hipsters preferred over bros.
8) We are politically left-leaning, and while we appreciate diversity of opinions we prefer not to live somewhere with a large concentration of people who are not accepting of other religions, sexual orientations, ethnicities, ways of life, etc. Don't think we could bring ourselves to live in a county that voted Trump.
9) Our families are near Raleigh, North Carolina and Columbus, Ohio. Would be nice to be a bit closer to them (but not too close but not a requirement.
10) Relatedly, being close to a good airport is a definite plus. In addition to being easier to visit family, we like to travel and plan to do it fairly often.
11) We want to live in a neighborhood with some soul to it (both in looks/architecture and vibe/things to do), definitely not treeless cookie cutter suburbs. Want to be within city limits but have a backyard (even if it's small).
12) I am in tech so some availability of tech jobs would be great. BF is in accounting so theoretically should be able to find a job anywhere.
13) Obviously affordability is a factor, but we're fine with a small house and are willing to pay a little extra for good location. Anywhere will be wayyy cheaper than SF
14) There are friendly people everywhere, but it's easier to make friends some places than others (e.g. see Seattle Freeze). We're on the introverted side and would prefer to live somewhere where there are plenty of people around our age that are open to making new friendships (not just sticking to existing groups).
15) We have a dream to start a small business one day so ideally we'll find some place where that is relatively easy to do.
16) Finally, at some point in the future we will probably start a family so while this isn't a priority right now, wherever we move shouldn't be terrible for raising a family.
I know it's a lot and there's no such thing as the perfect city that will fulfill all of this, but hoping for something close.
Some that we have thought about, along with their top issues based on what we've heard/read, are:
*Sacramento - not a top city, not enough to do?, not foodie enough?, hard to find tech jobs, prices going up quickly, airport not great. However this is a top contender for us right now given the weather and its proximity to the Bay Area.
*Austin - too hot/humid, heard that it's already getting overcrowded
*Houston - too hot/humid, traffic, not sure if it's hip/cool enough, too 'Texas'
*Boulder/Denver - too cold
*Columbus/Cleveland - not hip/cool enough, too close to family?
*Atlanta - not walkable, landlocked
*Savannah/Charleston - not big enough cities
*LA/Santa Monica/Long Beach - smog/pollution, not walkable, traffic, expensive except in sketchy areas
*San Diego - expensive, also we visited and the vibe seemed kind of 'bro-ish' but maybe we didn't get a good enough sense
*Portland/Seattle - weather too gloomy/not enough sun
*Chicago/DC/Boston/Minneapolis/Philly/Pittsburg/other northeast cities - think they're too cold, but open to being proven wrong
*Richmond/VA Beach - not big enough cities?
*RTP/Charlotte - not big/hip enough? Not walkable?
*Albuquerque - too inland, not great for diverse food, may as well move to Sacramento if we decide on this size city
Any advice is GREATLY appreciated. I didn't see any other threads that covered our specific criteria but if you know of some past threads that might be helpful, please point me to them.
Thanks in advance!
I dont think you will find Houston to be too "Texas" in terms of culture and politics.Id say the most Texan aspect of Houston is the oil and gas industry. Houston is very cosmopolitan.It is the most diverse place in the country according to a Rice University study.
You've basically eliminated the entire country. The entire Northeast is too cold for you, and the Southeast is too hot for you. The Southwest and Midwest are land-locked, and do you dismissed all the other major west coast cities. Unless you're willing to go to Honolulu, you need to change at least one of your criteria or give up.
gladhands: We have certainly not eliminated the cities I listed.. it's highly likely that we will end up in one of those (unless there is some other city we somehow haven't thought of). The list was only meant as a discussion starter about our perceived cons about those cities. It would be great if people could chime in and say "hey [feature] in [city] is actually not as bad as you may have heard" or "yeah [feature] is bad in [city] but it fits all your other criteria so well". C24L's response is a good example of this.
We're perfectly aware we won't be able to meet all the listed criteria, just wanted to throw them out there and have a conversation about which cities might be the best balance of pros and cons.
It seems like you've already narrowed the country down pretty well. With that many wants on your list you will have to give somewhere. I'd pick 3-4 must haves, 3-4 really wants, and 3-4 would be nices.
I would look in the midland SE (Nashville, Louisville, Cincinnati) or inland CA for your weather needs. If Denver is too cold then you've eliminated most of the Northeast and Midwest (Minneapolis would be nearly perfect for all except weather and - Minnesota Nice is debatable but with your interests being outdoors, DIY and crafty stuff you'd have a full social calendar here).
Philadelphia. Its winters are variable, but really not so bad and this is probably the only part that doesn't fit neatly in your criteria. It is a massive city that is extremely walkable, on par with San Francisco, while being far cheaper. If what appealed to you most about San Francisco is a multitude of historic, vibrant neighnorhoods, Philadelphia is probably its closest equivalent. It has many fantastic and historic neighborhoods to choose from and it's been one of the friendliest major cities I've ever visited in the US.
Los Angeles is walkable in fairly large parts and increasingly so--though your reliance on your car will have to do with where your workplace is. Also, if you're used to having a fairly small living space and can make do with that, then if you kept your expectations at the same level as the Bay Area, then it gets pretty doable. It's pricey, but not Bay Area horrific. The smog issue is not nearly what it was in the past.
Baltimore has even milder winters than Philadelphia, but is a smaller city and is even more affordable and somewhat milder in climate. It shares a lot of amenities with the much larger DC metro.
Another place you haven't listed is Miami/South Florida. Miami has become consistently more walkable and is definitely a major city with the amenities that come with that.
The last two are more wild cards that you haven't mentioned so may or may not be greqt fits. Maybe something helpful would be to list where in SF you live and/or what you like about it.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 11-28-2016 at 05:34 PM..
The winters in Denver/Boulder are milder than you'd expect. It doesn't rain nearly as often as in the eastern part of the country, the low humidity and high altitude make the sun feel stronger than in the northeast and the average winter highs are actually above 45. Plus, it's a paradise for people who love the outdoors, festivals and tech nerds. Diversity is not great (by CA standards) but improving.
Philadelphia is a very livable city but the weather will likely be an adjustment. The winters are colder on average than Denver/Boulder and feel worse. Access to the outdoors isn't as good and I'm skeptical about whether there are enough tech jobs to meet your needs (but it's been a while since I lived there.)
Sacramento is the city that immediately came to mind while reading your posts. But agreed that San Diego will have more of the big city amenities and you can't beat the weather (though the tech scene leans more toward biotech). As another Bay Area resident, those would be my top two choices.
I have to ask though: if San Diego and LA are on the list, why not the East Bay? Affordability would be comparable, no?
My partners close friend moved from LA after 15 years to do just that buy a home with her husband (dont know about the family part)- they bought a home in Chattanooga and they LOVE it. She reports that you can get a beautiful old style home downtown in the $100,000s apparently and it has a laid back groove to it.
Just sayin' we really wanted to check it out, but both got the flu (we were visiting their childhood state, alabama at the time) and didnt get to it, but on our next cross country trip we are planning to stop by.
Anyway I didnt see it on your list of cities, it may be alittle warm but not as much as alot of the deep south.... if you all want to research it?...
Phoenix, Washington, D.C., Richmond, Atlanta, Fort Lauderdale, and Philadelphia are cities that I have lived in, and over the years I have visited every other major city in the country (except Milwaukee). I can say without reservation that Philadelphia is the best of them all (at least for me). It meets all the criteria you set forth (except for cold winters). I hate cold weather too, but I hate boring cities and dependence on the automobile even more and that's why I moved to Center City Philadelphia from Fort Lauderdale. Philadelphia has everything one could want at a cost of living far more affordable than Boston, NYC, or Washington. I moved here on a one-year trial basis--that was 14-years ago. I walk or public transit to EVERYTHING which saves me a small fortune over owning an automobile. To say I love this city is to put it mildly. If you haven't visited Philly, I would encourage you to do so. I think you'll like what you see.
My partners close friend moved from LA after 15 years to do just that buy a home with her husband (dont know about the family part)- they bought a home in Chattanooga and they LOVE it. She reports that you can get a beautiful old style home downtown in the $100,000s apparently and it has a laid back groove to it.
Just sayin' we really wanted to check it out, but both got the flu (we were visiting their childhood state, alabama at the time) and didnt get to it, but on our next cross country trip we are planning to stop by.
Anyway I didnt see it on your list of cities, it may be alittle warm but not as much as alot of the deep south.... if you all want to research it?...
Hamilton County (home of Chattanooga) went for Trump this year. It's not always red but is probably too conservative for OP.
But on that note: I assume Asheville and Charlottesville, VA, are too small?
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