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View Poll Results: do Black Southerners sound like White ones?
Yes - They have distinct variations that give them away 61 85.92%
No - I think everyone in the South sounds the same 10 14.08%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-16-2016, 11:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
I've rarely been wrong.
I am of Indian descent and lived in an international community in another Asian country growing up, so maybe my ear is more tuned to it.
I also speak 5 languages and can pick up new ones super easy.
Finally (and super-embarrassing), as I speak to any person, I inadvertently start mimicking their accent, inflection, and word choice.

I can hear things.

You are certainly not the only one. I do the same, nothing to be embarrassed about.
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Old 12-16-2016, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Mobile,Al(the city by the bay)
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I think northern whites are amongst the majority that can not tell the difference.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:13 AM
 
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A topic that's interesting to me is how the people who are neither black or white sound in a given area.
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
A topic that's interesting to me is how the people who are neither black or white sound in a given area.
Asians tend to adopt the White speaking patterns, Hispanics tend to adopt a combo of Spanish lingo, White and Black lexical features (Puerto Rican's adopting more Black features), and from what I have noticed, Middle Eastern people adopt White lexical features most of the time, and partially a few Black ones.

This is how I have noticed things happen up North. This seems to be the case in Philly, NYC, Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, and Milwaukee.

In the South I have no idea. Most Southern cities aren't honestly super diverse.
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Old 12-20-2016, 01:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Asians tend to adopt the White speaking patterns, Hispanics tend to adopt a combo of Spanish lingo, White and Black lexical features (Puerto Rican's adopting more Black features), and from what I have noticed, Middle Eastern people adopt White lexical features most of the time, and partially a few Black ones.

This is how I have noticed things happen up North. This seems to be the case in Philly, NYC, Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, and Milwaukee.

In the South I have no idea. Most Southern cities aren't honestly super diverse.
The way US born Hispanics talk varies a lot in my experience, to the point where I can't really generalize. Some talk white, some talk black, some uniquely Hispanic (or any combination of the 3).
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
The way US born Hispanics talk varies a lot in my experience, to the point where I can't really generalize. Some talk white, some talk black, some uniquely Hispanic (or any combination of the 3).
Yeah that's accurate. I once met a Puerto Rican who sounded like he was from the Mississippi delta. Strongest country voice ever.
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Yes but in the South it gets tricky because African American English originates there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
No, not all Blacks sound Southern. But it is a fact that African American Vernacular English originated in the South.
This is not a "fact."

Was just discussing this actually in the History Forum.

BVE/AAVE/AAE (as you describe it) was a language common in Pennsylvania even amongst the free black community in the 1700s.

It does not come from the south, otherwise blacks in Philadelphia and Delaware in the 1700s would not have spoken it.

ETA: Sojourner Truth was from New York State and she spoke BVE/AAVE as well even though her original language was Dutch.
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
This is not a "fact."

Was just discussing this actually in the History Forum.

BVE/AAVE/AAE (as you describe it) was a language common in Pennsylvania even amongst the free black community in the 1700s.

It does not come from the south, otherwise blacks in Philadelphia and Delaware in the 1700s would not have spoken it.

ETA: Sojourner Truth was from New York State and she spoke BVE/AAVE as well even though her original language was Dutch.
Ugh...

The traditional AAVE is absolutely Southern in origin. Pidgins, creoles, and dialects that evolved outside of the South did not become mainstream nor did they pick up massive use outside of their home states. What is traditionally called AAVE today has its origin in the Lowland South.
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:48 AM
 
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There are a few theories about the origins of AAVE floating around, but from what I've read, almost all of the theories trace those origins to the South and the Caribbean:

Quote:
The history of AAVE and its genetic affiliation, by which we mean what language varieties it is related to, are also a matter of controversy. Some scholars contend that AAVE developed out of the contact between speakers of West African languages and speakers of vernacular English varieties. According to such a view, West Africans learnt English on plantations in the southern Coastal States (Georgia, South Carolina, etc.) from a very small number of native speakers (the indentured laborers). Some suggest that this led to the development of a rudimentary pidgin which was later expanded through a process of creolization.

Others who advocate a contact scenario for the development of AAVE suggest that the contact language (an early creole-like AAVE) developed through processes of second language acquisition. According to such a view West Africans newly arrived on plantations would have limited access to English grammatical models because the number of native speakers was so small (just a few indentured servants on each plantation). In such a situation a community of second language learners might graft what English vocabulary that could be garnered from transient encounters onto the few grammatical patterns which are common to the languages of West Africa. What linguists refer to as universal grammar (the law-like rules and tendencies which apply to all natural human language) would have played a significant role in such processes as well. This kind of thing seems to have taken place in the Caribbean and may also have happened in some places, at some times in the United States. For instance Gullah or Sea Islands Creole spoken in the Coastal Islands of South Carolina and Georgia seems to have formed in this way.

A number of scholars do not accept such a scenario. These researchers argue that the demographic conditions in the US and the Caribbean (where restructured creole languages are widely spoken) were really quite different and that the conditions necessary for the emergence of a fully fledged creole language were never met in the US. These scholars have shown on a number of occasions that what look like distinctive features of AAVE today actually have a precedent in various varieties of English spoken in Great Britain and the Southern United States. It seems reasonable to suggest that both views are partially correct and that AAVE developed to some extent through restructuring while it also inherited many of its today distinctive features from older varieties of English which were once widely spoken.
https://www.hawaii.edu/satocenter/la...ions/aave.html
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
There are a few theories about the origins of AAVE floating around, but from what I've read, almost all of the theories trace those origins to the South and the Caribbean:



https://www.hawaii.edu/satocenter/la...ions/aave.html
Were there Pidgins and creoles spoken outside of the South amongst Blacks? Of course. No one is denying that. But what is traditionally referred to as BVE has a very Southern character to it.

Other varieties like English spoken in Baltimore, Charleston, Barbados, and the West Indies has more of an African origin (and strongly Irish English as the base language except Baltimore), but this isn't referred to as a mainstream AMERICAN Black Vernacular. Blacks don't all speak African AMERICAN Vernacular English but the ones that do most likely speak a non-standard English from Britain that was spoken in the South and has since fallen out of favor among non-Black populations.
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