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Old 01-30-2017, 12:15 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,480 posts, read 2,225,716 times
Reputation: 2353

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Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
I don't think there is any place comparable to a suburb creating a downtown that literally completes with the city's downtown as does Clayton; I see it as being unique in that respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
The small size of Downtown STL plays into that. But agreed.
St. Louis in general is decentralized from its downtown when it comes to job. That's not to say that downtown is a jobs ghost town, but there are also a lot of jobs in the Central West End and Midtown (especially due to The Cortex) rather than downtown. There's also a new MetroLink stop going in in The Cortex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
Many cities have suburban areas that compete with their main downtowns with similar scale, but these generally don't coalesce into real suburban downtowns. The Denver Tech Center, Tyson's Corner, Silicon Valley (arguably) are in that category. If you want to see what part of the St. Louis metro area is doing the best though, draw a line starting in downtown and go straight west through the city and into west St. Louis County. That's where a great many of the jobs are clustered and the where a lot of the wealth is located.

Some cities have their core retail districts in secondary downtowns a few miles from their main downtowns. Country Club Plaza in KC and Cherry Creek in Denver are like that, with the downtowns suffering as a result. But they're both in the core cities, not suburban.
Or if you're St. Louis, not in the city at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwguy2 View Post
Clayton, MO is impressive, but I note that with the exception of The Plaza at Clayton, there has not been a new high-rise there in decades. (Somebody correct me if I am wrong).
Looking at Emporis, there's been 4-5 highrises built since 2000 not counting The Plaza. There's currently a highrise apartment building under construction, and excavation for Centene's expanded campus begins next month. One of the towers in the campus will become the tallest in Clayton. There's also a few highrises proposals that are waiting to get off the ground.
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Old 01-30-2017, 12:19 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,480 posts, read 2,225,716 times
Reputation: 2353
Unrelated to Clayton, I put forward Evanston as an alternative for the Chicago metro area. It has a walkable downtown with restaurants, stores, and housing. It's also serviced by the CTA via the Purple Line L train, in addition to Metra commuter rail. Here's a shot with downtown Evanston and Chicago in the same picture:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20131001050956

Politico also did a piece on Evanston's embrace of TOD back in 2015:
What Works Evanston: The Suburb That Tried To Kill the Car - POLITICO Magazine
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Old 01-30-2017, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,890 posts, read 6,535,124 times
Reputation: 5356
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post
Unrelated to Clayton, I put forward Evanston as an alternative for the Chicago metro area. It has a walkable downtown with restaurants, stores, and housing. It's also serviced by the CTA via the Purple Line L train, in addition to Metra commuter rail. Here's a shot with downtown Evanston and Chicago in the same picture:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20131001050956

Politico also did a piece on Evanston's embrace of TOD back in 2015:
What Works Evanston: The Suburb That Tried To Kill the Car - POLITICO Magazine
and along with all that, it has managed to become a very good college town with its downtown increasingly able to serve the NU students. As I mentioned earlier, there is no suburban downtown in Chicagoland that can compare with Evanston (although I would definitely give high marks to Oak Park, Naperville, Arlington Heights, and Highland Park)
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:38 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,003 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by woxyroxme View Post
I always considered a suburb to be a primarily residential area bordering a big city without it's own downtown but maybe a shopping center, owing it's existence to the advent of the automobile era. Most suburbs do not have an identity of their own. A small town in the next county that has it's own downtown that is surrounded by woodlands, cow pastures or corn fields are not suburbs.


I don't count it as anything other than it's own city, it's big enough and well known enough to stand on it's own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grogers385 View Post
My definition of suburb is areas developed after ww2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan_ninenine View Post
Aren't all the places people are naming in here technically cities though? Bellevue and Boulder are absolutely considered seperate cities.

This has got to be a hard question to genuinely answer because when I think of a suburban "downtown" or just the center of a suburban area, I can only think of like a collection of restaurants and strip malls.

Hmm. Obvi, if you go by the definition in the black bold, then the answer is "there isn't one".

This is untrue. Many suburbs were towns in their own right long before they became suburbs of a larger city. This is true in every city I'm familiar with.

Correct. Suburbs are generally part of a contiguous area. There can be some open space though, between the suburb and its main city.

Many suburbs pre-date WW II.

Boulder is a separate city, yes; it has its own history and it's been around a long time. The oldest continuously running high school in Colorado is in Boulder. (Boulder High) However, Boulder is dependent on Denver for the majority of the undergrad students at the U of CO. It wouldn't be the city it is w/o Denver, and some do commute from Denver to Boulder and vice versa.
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Old 01-30-2017, 10:50 PM
 
429 posts, read 317,299 times
Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
A friend visited Bellevue and didn't think much of it; found it somewhat pedestrian unfriendly and few walked there.
I don't know why people keep mentioning Bellevue - aside from the skyline it's not a good downtown in my opinion. Tacoma is about 25 miles from Seattle but I'd still consider it a suburb and it has an excellent downtown. Far better than Bellevue's. I'd also take downtown Kirkland or Everett over Downtown Bellevue.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Seattle
565 posts, read 564,206 times
Reputation: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward234 View Post
I don't know why people keep mentioning Bellevue - aside from the skyline it's not a good downtown in my opinion. Tacoma is about 25 miles from Seattle but I'd still consider it a suburb and it has an excellent downtown. Far better than Bellevue's. I'd also take downtown Kirkland or Everett over Downtown Bellevue.
Only Tacoma is not a suburb. It's a fully functioning city that shares the same metro as Seattle. (Sea-Tac)
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:20 AM
 
4,485 posts, read 2,670,613 times
Reputation: 4090
Tacoma is an older city, once a true equal of Seattle, that gradually fell behind over the last century, and gradually entered Seattle's orbit mostly over time in the decades after I-5 was built. It's more of a secondary city within the CSA.

The San Francisco comparison is apt. Tacoma is Oakland but located like San Jose. Bellevue/Redmond/Kirkland/Issaquah/Sammamish is San Jose but located like Oakland.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,931,415 times
Reputation: 3574
Philadelphia Region

Most significant satellite cities and suburban Downtowns:

Wilmington, DE
Satellite city
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7454958,-75.5476682,3a,75y,284.84h,87.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7aTtX-AYz1IJ5ocf7Th3iw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Camden, NJ
Satellite city
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9470534,-75.1218745,3a,75y,283.96h,85.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHoiq4ZFdEEtXr-zX8lyYCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Atlantic City, NJ
Satellite city
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3590981,-74.4358013,3a,75y,70.11h,76.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smyLGcek7SiMlT4rdNJQBHA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Reading, PA
Satellite city
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.335654,-75.9278106,3a,75y,354.4h,83.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spEyQN3kMY3VNOJNURbHEAg!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

West Chester, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9604...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Media, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9180...8i6656!6m1!1e1


Doylestown, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Doylestown,+PA+18901/@40.3109101,-75.1306126,3a,60y,206.43h,83.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2AwsG3ZmNARZsk1vFpEgGA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c6a813fc65777f:0x33be389 88a8c48b3!8m2!3d40.3101063!4d-75.1298939!6m1!1e1


Newark, DE
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6834...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Dover, DE
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1579215,-75.5252813,3a,75y,252.11h,79.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCcB6al8XkMeEaP_5-HVIbA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Collingswood, NJ
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Collingswood,+NJ/@39.9161119,-75.0685283,3a,60y,284.54h,79.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVPITeF0_L_A_a2TcjP4FAA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c6c94f02f1e9c7:0xb0167df 7df092c69!8m2!3d39.9181686!4d-75.071284!6m1!1e1

Haddonfield, NJ
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Haddonfield,+NJ+08033/@39.8980799,-75.0319291,3a,60y,238.73h,82.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL5Lj8FDQnUSOIzSv47AeqA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c6cc73a991e86d:0x9fe8dd1 f53e1f1d1!8m2!3d39.8915022!4d-75.0376707!6m1!1e1

Kennett Square, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ke...116032!6m1!1e1

Upper Darby, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9614...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Norristown, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1145147,-75.3445086,3a,75y,345.82h,84.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfmUJaRigpTRxR8xsHH-P5g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Conshohocken, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0744362,-75.3057968,3a,75y,205.36h,71.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX1ybiglZEsSCHTul9HOKiQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Ardmore, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ardmore,+PA/@40.0082904,-75.2918606,3a,60y,121.05h,81.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqNL7sQo32uHAl-it0PiN-w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c6c062744ff33f: 0xf22f9dbef7182e3e!8m2!3d40.0067785!4d-75.2854622!6m1!1e1

Phoenixville, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1338...8i6656!6m1!1e1


Newtown, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2277563,-74.9369527,3a,75y,5.59h,84.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7aWFfewYm18m-HsFX_d_hQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Jenkintown, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0958...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Bryn Mawr, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0221811,-75.3198457,3a,75y,125.76h,83.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sttU9RfB8pNoXB--XOpg3iA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Pottstown, PA
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Br...151772!6m1!1e1


Wyomissing, PA

Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3358329,-75.9504562,3a,75y,90.18h,81.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spcAJ1oLGyqfsi3oy33IE3w!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

Ocean City, NJ
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2802269,-74.5745477,3a,75y,216.49h,85.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTo9x2LJQWHvFQf38LUv_bQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

Stone Harbor, NJ
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Stone+Harbor,+NJ+08247/@39.0544869,-74.7605401,3a,60y,124h,86.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSBuGN4MtI988SOfM9-fQpw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c0a5dee41c84 99:0x7a411efa33e35974!8m2!3d39.0464066!4d-74.7643608!6m1!1e1

Cape May, NJ
Suburban Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9324211,-74.9233989,3a,75y,243.2h,83.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shJ-t4LlCo9jeqDMf-MktPg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Last edited by RightonWalnut; 01-31-2017 at 12:43 AM..
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Old 01-31-2017, 06:41 AM
 
29,943 posts, read 27,375,616 times
Reputation: 18495
^I think a lot of those are entirely too far from Philly to truly be considered suburban.
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Old 01-31-2017, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,931,415 times
Reputation: 3574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
^I think a lot of those are entirely too far from Philly to truly be considered suburban.
Yes, some. Not all. These are the distance from each to the heart of Center City, Philadelphia:

MSA
Wilmington, DE - satellite city - 30 minute drive, 20 minute train ride
Camden, NJ - satellite city - 10 minute drive, 10 minute train ride
West Chester, PA - suburban Downtown - 40 minute drive
Media, PA - suburban Downtown - 30 minute drive, 30 minute train ride, 1 hr trolley ride
Doylestown, PA - suburban Downtown - 50 minute drive, 1 hr 30 minute train ride
Newark, DE - suburban Downtown - 50 minute drive, 30 minute train ride
Collingswood, NJ - suburban Downtown - 15 minute drive, 20 minute train ride
Haddonfield, NJ - suburban Downtown - 20 minute drive, 25 minute train ride
Kennett Square, PA - suburban Downtown - 50 minute drive
Upper Darby, PA - suburban Downtown - 25 minute drive, 15 minute train ride
Norristown, PA - suburban Downtown - 30 minute drive, 50 minute train ride
Conshohocken, PA - suburban Downtown - 20 minute drive, 40 minute train ride
Ardmore, PA - suburban Downtown - 20 minute drive, 20 minute train ride
Phoenixville, PA - suburban Downtown - 40 minute drive
Newtown, PA - suburban Downtown - 40 minute drive
Jenkintown, PA - suburban Downtown - 30 minute drive, 30 minute train ride
Bryn Mawr, PA - suburban Downtown - 25 minute drive, 20 minute train ride
Pottstown, PA - suburban Downtown - 45 minute drive

CSA
Atlantic City, NJ - satellite city - 1 hr 10 minute drive, 1 hr 30 minute train ride
Reading, PA - satellite city - 1 hr 10 minute drive
Ocean City, NJ - suburban Downtown - 1 hr 10 minute drive
Wyomissing, PA - suburban Downtown - 1 hr 15 minute drive
Dover, DE - suburban Downtown - 1 hr 20 minute drive, 2 hr 20 minute train ride
Stone Harbor, NJ - suburban Downtown - 1 hr 25 minute drive
Cape May, NJ - suburban Downtown - 1 hr 30 minute drive
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