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Old 02-16-2017, 11:50 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
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I would say New York is more linked, but relations, so to speak, are far from peachy.

There is a lot of animosity (some valid, some misplaced) from Upstate towards NYC, and a lot of ignorance from the residents of NYC towards their Upstate brethren. Of course the most vitriolic expounders on both sides are the loudest, so it seems worse than it is.

Many city folk love and appreciate Upstate, and many Upstaters enjoy occasional trips to the city. The fact that the demarcation is so widely disputed, for some it is one county north of NYC, for others anything south of Albany, is testament to the overall linkage of the state to its biggest city.
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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I would definitely say the divide is greater in Illinois. In NY, many NYC people go upstate and have summer homes for the weekends in places like Saratoga or the Adirondacks. Many upstate NY counties are blue, just like the NYC metro area and the New York Thruway gives a sense of a connected state. Also, upstate/WNY has much to offer in terms of outdoor/getaway activities, particularly in the Adirondack region, and the whole state contains numerous small cities all over the place. It is overall a scenic state.

Chicagoland, on the other hand, is like a bubble. There really isn't any real leisurely attraction downstate. Most of the state is farm oriented, with virtually no vacation opportunities, and is politically different as well.
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintainschaos View Post
Maybe in the exurbs or far-flung suburbs, but I don't know many people who end up moving to the (big) city itself or even some of the closer-ring suburbs. My impression (but it is just that), is rural Midwesterners are more likely to end up in the Des Moines/Madisons/Peorias of their respective states (or move out all together), rather than the Chicagos/Detroits/Milwaukees due to a less stark transition.
I think you're wrong, at least if you're talking about young people with a lot of education and earnings potential. Looking at census data, approximately 825,000 people in Cook County were born in the U.S. but outside of Illinois - about 20% of the total U.S.-born population. When looking at those with a graduate degree it rises to 41% of of the total U.S.-born population. I don't know if the census drills down on a county basis regarding state of birth, but I know that in general Illinois only really exchanges population on a substantive level with other Midwestern states - meaning the highly-educated domestic transplants are mostly from the Midwest, not the rest of the country.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:12 PM
 
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Another political thing to consider, and I get the sense that this causes a ton of resentment in Downstate Illinois, is that even though the state capital is downstate in Springfield, the state government is essentially run out of Chicago, in the Thompson Center. In New York the governor has an office in Manhattan -- I used to work right next door to it -- but Albany is still where the action happens. In Illinois, last I checked all the most important statewide politicians are from the Chicago area (though Sen. Dick Durbin is from downstate) and they do their business in Chicago.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I think you're wrong, at least if you're talking about young people with a lot of education and earnings potential
But I wasn't; I was specifically talking about, and referring to, rural Midwesterners for whom moving to a city like Chicago or Detroit (or NYC or LA, for that matter) would be a stark difference.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post
Again, the majority of Southern Illinois residents are living in metropolitan St. Louis. They're not likely to look towards cities in Tennessee or even Kansas City. For better or for worse, St. Louis still has the view of itself as being above those cities. It sees itself as having more of a connection with Chicago. This is partially supported by the fact that St. Louis is in the top 10 for places Chicagoans move to and in the top 10 places sending people to Chicago.
Where Chicagoans Are Most Likely to Move When They Leave the Windy City | NBC Chicago

Chicago is a popular tourist destination for people from all over the state of Illinois. If you're able to look past views that people from Wisconsin hold, then I frankly don't know what's holding you back regarding the rest of Illinois.
The only thing that surprised me more in the Link you gave. Is Atlanta as a city that Atlantonians/Atlantanites LOL are moving to (or maybe back to) Chicago. Certianly NOT the both ways traffic with St Louis.

I'm not sure how or why? Wisconsinites you say way or infer - have a far more dislike or negativity towards Chicagoans? Then those in Southern Illinois? Just politically alone has to give the Southern state residents more resentments?

If it is for feeling too many Chicago tourist types trampling on Wisconsin there all summer? ☺ That should be superficial? I'm sure how Chicagoans probably buy up most of the Dell's/ Lake Delton homes for vacations, maybe around Lake Geneva and other locations? That might not be to appreciated by some as prices are sky high in areas they do then.

Perhaps you can explain more this ---> More dislike from the north more you believe? When for Chicagoans? It is totally luv affair ❤ ----> toward its north. Even between Chicago and Milwaukee. It seems pretty respectful I'd say.

Maybe I'm just all wrong today? As my assessment is maybe outdated?
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Wisconsinites you say way or infer - have a far more dislike or negativity towards Chicagoans? Then those in Southern Illinois? Just politically alone has to give the Southern state residents more resentments?

If it is for feeling too many Chicago tourist types trampling on Wisconsin there all summer? ☺ That should be superficial? I'm sure how Chicagoans probably buy up most of the Dell's/ Lake Delton homes for vacations, maybe around Lake Geneva and other locations? That might not be to appreciated by some as prices are sky high in areas they do then.

Perhaps you can explain more this ---> More dislike from the north more you believe? When for Chicagoans? It is totally luv affair ❤ ----> toward its north. Even between Chicago and Milwaukee. It seems pretty respectful I'd say.

Maybe I'm just all wrong today? As my assessment is maybe outdated?
I've lived in downstate Illinois, Chicago, and Wisconsin. Badgers' use of the term FIBs is almost exclusively for Chicagoland denizens for all the reason you mentioned and then some. The pejorative is also used by some in Michigan and parts of N. Indiana. My impression from my years of having lived in WI and IL is that WI and Chicago are no more akin to one another than downstate IL and Chicago. Younger people from both areas like going to the city for certain things (shopping, shows, dinner), but for most citizens it is no love affair between WI and Chicago, certainly sports least of all, but other things like traffic, taxes, politics as well.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintainschaos View Post
I've lived in downstate Illinois, Chicago, and Wisconsin. Badgers' use of the term FIBs is almost exclusively for Chicagoland denizens for all the reason you mentioned and then some. The pejorative is also used by some in Michigan and parts of N. Indiana. My impression from my years of having lived in WI and IL is that WI and Chicago are no more akin to one another than downstate IL and Chicago. Younger people from both areas like going to the city for certain things (shopping, shows, dinner), but for most citizens it is no love affair between WI and Chicago, certainly sports least of all, but other things like traffic, taxes, politics as well.
Sure places Chicago in "da bubble" others mentioned. I just did not relate the Wisconsin negativity Was so deep? Being religious divides are not as prevalent within Politics in the Midwest (well maybe is for waaay downstate Illinois)? I just did not sense such strong divides from the north. Must be too many years away now?

But apparently the Canadian OP got his answer of - if the divide is greater for NYC or Chi-Town.
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Old 02-16-2017, 03:01 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I think you're wrong, at least if you're talking about young people with a lot of education and earnings potential. Looking at census data, approximately 825,000 people in Cook County were born in the U.S. but outside of Illinois - about 20% of the total U.S.-born population. When looking at those with a graduate degree it rises to 41% of of the total U.S.-born population. I don't know if the census drills down on a county basis regarding state of birth, but I know that in general Illinois only really exchanges population on a substantive level with other Midwestern states - meaning the highly-educated domestic transplants are mostly from the Midwest, not the rest of the country.
Your point however, doesn't disagree with maintainchaos (who's saying about what rural transplants do). Looking at census data, 11% of New York City residents were born in the US but out of state, while 19% of Chicago residents are.
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Old 02-16-2017, 04:49 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,480 posts, read 2,226,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
The only thing that surprised me more in the Link you gave. Is Atlanta as a city that Atlantonians/Atlantanites LOL are moving to (or maybe back to) Chicago. Certianly NOT the both ways traffic with St Louis.

I'm not sure how or why? Wisconsinites you say way or infer - have a far more dislike or negativity towards Chicagoans? Then those in Southern Illinois? Just politically alone has to give the Southern state residents more resentments?

If it is for feeling too many Chicago tourist types trampling on Wisconsin there all summer? ☺ That should be superficial? I'm sure how Chicagoans probably buy up most of the Dell's/ Lake Delton homes for vacations, maybe around Lake Geneva and other locations? That might not be to appreciated by some as prices are sky high in areas they do then.

Perhaps you can explain more this ---> More dislike from the north more you believe? When for Chicagoans? It is totally luv affair ❤ ----> toward its north. Even between Chicago and Milwaukee. It seems pretty respectful I'd say.

Maybe I'm just all wrong today? As my assessment is maybe outdated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Sure places Chicago in "da bubble" others mentioned. I just did not relate the Wisconsin negativity Was so deep? Being religious divides are not as prevalent within Politics in the Midwest (well maybe is for waaay downstate Illinois)? I just did not sense such strong divides from the north. Must be too many years away now?

But apparently the Canadian OP got his answer of - if the divide is greater for NYC or Chi-Town.
I can't speak for someone living in a rural county sitting on the Illinois border with Kentucky, but I can tell you that Illinois is not monolithic. There are blue and purple counties outside of Chicagoland in Northern, Central, and Southern Illinois. Going off of the section of Southern Illinois I am the most familiar with, St. Clair County across from St. Louis is staunchly blue and home to more than 264,000 people, and Madison County, the county immediately north of St. Clair County, is more purple and home to 266,000 people. There's not a widespread hatred for Chicago in either county, and the two of them alone makeup nearly half of Southern Illinois' population of 1.2 million.

Are there people in rural red counties elsewhere in Southern Illinois who have an undying hatred for Chicago? I'm sure there are, but I'd wager any day of the week that there are probably more people who happen to like Chicago or, at the worst, are merely indifferent towards the city than those who outright hate the place.
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