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Old 03-03-2017, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,077 posts, read 102,800,958 times
Reputation: 33142

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
There may be something to that.

For a fact, we need to understand that the Boomer Generation enjoyed a period that was an anomaly in human history, and the Boomer Generation way of life is not by any means guaranteed immutable. The world is moving back to its normal point of stability.
Snort! I believe you're thinking of "The Greatest Generation", not their Boomer kids. I'm an older Boomer. Just as I was getting established in the job market, Nixon threw on wage and price controls in 1971. Then came the "stagflation" of the 70s. The oil embargo and energy crisis of 1973 happened shortly thereafter. Rising mortgage interest rates occurred in the late 70s/early 80s, just as many Boomers were starting to buy their first houses. There was the early 80s recession, the oil bust of the late 1980s, which severely affected Denver. 401Ks replaced pensions for people in the private sector. The early 2000s saw another recession, and then the biggie in 2008 came just as some of us were in the latter days of our careers. I know people who were laid off back then who have never worked again. Etc, etc, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/just-...152241574.html
Why Today
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:10 AM
 
20,272 posts, read 11,238,907 times
Reputation: 20337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Snort! I believe you're thinking of "The Greatest Generation", not their Boomer kids. I'm an older Boomer. Just as I was getting established in the job market, Nixon threw on wage and price controls in 1971. Then came the "stagflation" of the 70s. The oil embargo and energy crisis of 1973 happened shortly thereafter. Rising mortgage interest rates occurred in the late 70s/early 80s, just as many Boomers were starting to buy their first houses. There was the early 80s recession, the oil bust of the late 1980s, which severely affected Denver. 401Ks replaced pensions for people in the private sector. The early 2000s saw another recession, and then the biggie in 2008 came just as some of us were in the latter days of our careers. I know people who were laid off back then who have never worked again. Etc, etc, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/just-...152241574.html
Why Today
No, I mean the Boomers. The Boomer generation is the only one that fully enjoyed the prosperity of the post-WWII era.


The War Generation is also the Great Depression generation and the Dust Bowl generation--their childhoods were impoverished compared to that of Boomers, and they did not grow up with the expectations of the Boomer Generation. Things began to grind down as Europe and Japan finally recovered from WWII, but it was still the Boomer generation that was raised with expectations that had before been the province of the children of potentates.
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,077 posts, read 102,800,958 times
Reputation: 33142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
No, I mean the Boomers. The Boomer generation is the only one that fully enjoyed the prosperity of the post-WWII era.


The War Generation is also the Great Depression generation and the Dust Bowl generation--their childhoods were impoverished compared to that of Boomers, and they did not grow up with the expectations of the Boomer Generation. Things began to grind down as Europe and Japan finally recovered from WWII, but it was still the Boomer generation that was raised with expectations that had before been the province of the children of potentates.
Bull puckey! Do you just ignore the history of the 70s and 80s, bad economic times for everyone, just as Boomers were getting established in careers? Our childhoods were better than our parents' for sure, especially those who lived through the Depression as kids.
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Old 03-03-2017, 11:33 AM
 
20,272 posts, read 11,238,907 times
Reputation: 20337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Bull puckey! Do you just ignore the history of the 70s and 80s, bad economic times for everyone, just as Boomers were getting established in careers? Our childhoods were better than our parents' for sure, especially those who lived through the Depression as kids.
The 70s sucked in some ways, such as buying a house, but it was still "any degree gets you a good job in a solid company."


It was also a period when blue collar union jobs were good to have. I had a friend, a welder--never went to college, but got certified in welding exotic metals. During the 80s he was one of a handful of welders in Texas who could repair oil drill bits in the field. Oil companies called him frantically when their operations were halted by broken bits and didn't even ask his fee. They only asked his availability: "Can we send a helicopter for you now?" He retired in the 90s.


I was in my 30s during the 80s--a great decade to buy a house in both cases.


No other generation in history anywhere ever had it as well as us American Boomers.
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Old 03-03-2017, 12:33 PM
 
21,237 posts, read 30,486,189 times
Reputation: 19707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
A lot of people overlook how important cost of living is in quality of life.

At 31, I earn a salary that I believe many on the coasts would believe to be difficult to get by on, but in the suburban Upper Midwest it allows me a 2,200 square foot house, with a yard, in a good, walkable neighborhood, with great schools, two newer cars, two kids, a retirement account that is healthily growing, and enough leftover for eating out, recreation, and regular vacations to local destinations - and all this with my wife taking a few years off with our kids who are both under 2.

I hear a lot of people my age complain that the American dream is dead because you can't afford a house or a family - and this is true in much of the nation, but not so much in the Heartland. When weighing job prospects from NYC, Orlando, the SF Bay area and Detroit - I found the most sensible choice was to move somewhere that many consider to be undesirable (Detroit), because when I crunched the numbers it would allow for a much higher standard of living in a much nicer neighborhood - and somewhat to my surprise it has turned out to be a great place to live.
I agree completely with what you're saying and while the beard-bro trendoid millennials continue to pile into Seattle, Austin, Portland, Nashville, Denver or "low salary-high cost" Sunbelt cities like Orlando or Miami there are many second tier smaller cities where one can enjoy a similar lifestyle while not going broke.
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:24 PM
 
Location: 130 Miles E of Sacramento
5,496 posts, read 3,318,041 times
Reputation: 3681
Some people like where they live and would rather settle down there until the day they die.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,077 posts, read 102,800,958 times
Reputation: 33142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The 70s sucked in some ways, such as buying a house, but it was still "any degree gets you a good job in a solid company."


It was also a period when blue collar union jobs were good to have. I had a friend, a welder--never went to college, but got certified in welding exotic metals. During the 80s he was one of a handful of welders in Texas who could repair oil drill bits in the field. Oil companies called him frantically when their operations were halted by broken bits and didn't even ask his fee. They only asked his availability: "Can we send a helicopter for you now?" He retired in the 90s.


I was in my 30s during the 80s--a great decade to buy a house in both cases.


No other generation in history anywhere ever had it as well as us American Boomers.
The 70s were also a time when the steel industry was slowly collapsing, only to totally crash in the early 80s. I too was in my 30s in the 80s. The early 80s were a terrible time to buy a house in the Denver area. Housing prices were going up d/t the inflation of the 70s, and mortgage rates were at an all time high. By the late 80s, housing prices had crashed here, and mortgage rates were down to something decent, and it was a great time to buy a house here, IF you had a job. As far as your welder friend, the oil industry crashed in the mid-late 80s. Here in Denver, lots of people lost their jobs, there was tons of empty office space on 17th St., the oil companies left town. The oil shale industry crashed on Colorado's western slope in 1982. Just boom, gone overnight. Here's an contemporaneous article about Houston:NOW, IT'S REMEMBER THE OIL BUST! - NYTimes.com

Denver and the western slope:
http://essexfg.com/uploads/2015-07-2...townoffice.pdf
"At that time, the oil and gas industry occupied more than 30 percent of Denver’s CBD office space and over 50 percent of CBD high-rise office space. Then, from November 1985 to March 1986, the price of oil plummeted 67 percent."
https://extras.denverpost.com/snapshot/part1g.htm

Steel industry: http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/publi...f_us_steel.pdf (1982)
"U.S. steelmaking capacity has shrunk from a peak of around 168 million tons per annum (of raw steel) in the mid1960s to an estimated 151 million tons at present. Most of this capacity-high-cost, outmoded facilities that should have been replaced years earlier-has been shut down since the first quarter of 1975, when the full effects of the Oil Hoax and recession hit."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_crisis
In desperate 1983, there was nowhere for Pittsburgh's economy to go but up | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
"In January 1983, the regional economy officially -- that is, numerically -- bottomed out. Unemployment in Allegheny County hit 13.9 percent, a rosy figure compared to the rest of the Pittsburgh metropolitan statistical area, where the adjusted unemployment rate hit an astonishing 17.1 percent (unadjusted, the number was actually higher, 18.2 percent).

It had never been that high before, at least not since the government started counting, and it hasn't been that high since. Regionally, the number of unemployed hit 212,000. . . . In industrialized Beaver County, the rate hit 27.1 percent in January 1983 -- greater than the peak U.S. unemployment rate during the Great Depression."


Now I happen to be from Beaver County, PA, although in 1983 I was living in metro Denver.

You think this was so great?

Gen X had it pretty good too, coming of age in the 90s when the economy was hot.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 03-03-2017 at 06:04 PM..
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Old 03-04-2017, 06:19 AM
 
21,237 posts, read 30,486,189 times
Reputation: 19707
[quote=broscoe;47387848]Corporations drive PART of the economic development of an area, a huge part of it also has to do with individuals creating communities in order to attract corporations with their purchasing power, plus innovation and creation of small businesses to diversify the local economy.
Simply put, corporations go where the money is, and the money is where people live!
/QUOTE]

Not really. The migration patterns show most are moving to places in Florida for example where trust me, the corporations are not located nor do they show any desire to. It's kind of the point of this thread. Americans aren't utilizing any sense of logic generally when they do choose to move.
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Old 03-04-2017, 09:10 AM
 
20,272 posts, read 11,238,907 times
Reputation: 20337
[quote=kyle19125;47393607]
Quote:
Originally Posted by broscoe View Post

Not really. The migration patterns show most are moving to places in Florida for example where trust me, the corporations are not located nor do they show any desire to. It's kind of the point of this thread. Americans aren't utilizing any sense of logic generally when they do choose to move.
Sure they are. It's just that the reasons are varied enough that very often there is no clearly dominant reason.

We know a lot of people go to Florida to retire--quite logical.

Many others go to join family units. Many others for entertainment and resort industry jobs, or other jobs that aren't related to the commonly considered major corporations.

Hardly anyone moves to another state with no rationale at all.
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Old 03-04-2017, 09:15 AM
 
20,272 posts, read 11,238,907 times
Reputation: 20337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
The 70s were also a time when the steel industry was slowly collapsing, only to totally crash in the early 80s. I too was in my 30s in the 80s. The early 80s were a terrible time to buy a house in the Denver area. Housing prices were going up d/t the inflation of the 70s, and mortgage rates were at an all time high. By the late 80s, housing prices had crashed here, and mortgage rates were down to something decent, and it was a great time to buy a house here, IF you had a job. As far as your welder friend, the oil industry crashed in the mid-late 80s. Here in Denver, lots of people lost their jobs, there was tons of empty office space on 17th St., the oil companies left town. The oil shale industry crashed on Colorado's western slope in 1982. Just boom, gone overnight. Here's an contemporaneous article about Houston:NOW, IT'S REMEMBER THE OIL BUST! - NYTimes.com

Denver and the western slope:
http://essexfg.com/uploads/2015-07-2...townoffice.pdf
"At that time, the oil and gas industry occupied more than 30 percent of Denverís CBD office space and over 50 percent of CBD high-rise office space. Then, from November 1985 to March 1986, the price of oil plummeted 67 percent."
https://extras.denverpost.com/snapshot/part1g.htm

Steel industry: http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/publi...f_us_steel.pdf (1982)
"U.S. steelmaking capacity has shrunk from a peak of around 168 million tons per annum (of raw steel) in the mid1960s to an estimated 151 million tons at present. Most of this capacity-high-cost, outmoded facilities that should have been replaced years earlier-has been shut down since the first quarter of 1975, when the full effects of the Oil Hoax and recession hit."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_crisis
In desperate 1983, there was nowhere for Pittsburgh's economy to go but up | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
"In January 1983, the regional economy officially -- that is, numerically -- bottomed out. Unemployment in Allegheny County hit 13.9 percent, a rosy figure compared to the rest of the Pittsburgh metropolitan statistical area, where the adjusted unemployment rate hit an astonishing 17.1 percent (unadjusted, the number was actually higher, 18.2 percent).

It had never been that high before, at least not since the government started counting, and it hasn't been that high since. Regionally, the number of unemployed hit 212,000. . . . In industrialized Beaver County, the rate hit 27.1 percent in January 1983 -- greater than the peak U.S. unemployment rate during the Great Depression."


Now I happen to be from Beaver County, PA, although in 1983 I was living in metro Denver.

You think this was so great?

Gen X had it pretty good too, coming of age in the 90s when the economy was hot.
And nothing you said changes the fact that the American Boomer generation yet enjoys the highest level of prosperity that any generation in the history of mankind has ever enjoyed.

Did the War Generation get some of that in their older years, yes, but their childhood decades sucked far, far worse than the childhood decades of the Boomers.

Did the X-Gen's childhood enjoy some of that? Yes, but their later years are going to suck heavily.

It is only the Boomer Generation that rides in the saddle of the greatest period of prosperity the world had ever known.
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