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Old 03-06-2008, 08:33 PM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,066,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeehound View Post
Businesses just follow the rooftops, that's all. There is no reason for lots of suburbanites to even bother with the core city anymore-- plenty of them don't even work in the city center now that the businesses have also migrated to the burbs.

I'm also not sure it's universally true that urban living produces liberal tolerance. Especially not if the urban living isn't a matter of "lifestyle choice" as it mostly is now for professional-type liberal whites.
Not sure what you mean. Could you re-phrase?
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:18 PM
 
269 posts, read 498,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post
Not sure what you mean. Could you re-phrase?
What I mean is that, if you dragged Joe and Sally Six-Pack back into the city due to high energy prices, that is no guarantee that they'd transform into multiculturalist Democrats.

I just disagree with the assumption that living elbow-to-nose with diversity necessarily produces "tolerance." Robert Putnam's work comes to mind.

Most of the professional-class "liberal" white people now living in American cities are there as a matter of lifestyle choice and the desire to seek out like-minded people. Not a bad thing, just that I think our current urban population is fairly self-selecting... and they might not actually like being forced to deal with a dense influx of their red-state-suburban country cousins.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:13 AM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,066,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeehound View Post
What I mean is that, if you dragged Joe and Sally Six-Pack back into the city due to high energy prices, that is no guarantee that they'd transform into multiculturalist Democrats.

I just disagree with the assumption that living elbow-to-nose with diversity necessarily produces "tolerance." Robert Putnam's work comes to mind.

Most of the professional-class "liberal" white people now living in American cities are there as a matter of lifestyle choice and the desire to seek out like-minded people. Not a bad thing, just that I think our current urban population is fairly self-selecting... and they might not actually like being forced to deal with a dense influx of their red-state-suburban country cousins.
You are painting your scenario with a pretty broad brush. First, not all Democrats are "multiculturalist". Lots of union families, city and suburban, are pretty provincial but always vote Democratic. Second, many of us city dwellers grew up in the city--we didn't move here as a "lifestyle choice". Actually, the reverse is true--many suburbanites are themselves, or are descendents of the "white flighters" who left the city for precisely the same reason you stated: "to seek out like-minded people".

However, I will grant you that many suburbanites are moving into the city (at least mine) but they bring some of their suburban values with them. These are the people who complain about billboards, cram 3 car garages on their 40 foot lots, demand big box retail in the city so they don't have to drive back to the burbs, and complain loudly when bus lines are rerouted down their street. It's the CITY, for crying out loud!! Like minded? Not like mine!
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Fly-over country.
1,765 posts, read 6,384,882 times
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just look at the by-county maps of the last two elections.... this isn't a hard trend to spot

however the choices are blurred so much these days, i think we'll see a serious third party (or fourth) run in the next 20 years -- more than 10-15 percent. that should pull the left and right back apart (as it stands now, social/moral issues and taxes barely divide them)
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:20 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,792,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radraja View Post
Mass population migrating in one direction all at once is bad thing.

You may think that people rushing back into the cities will be a great thing, but don't think that it won't come with problems. Seriously, be careful what you wish for.

I like a healthy, thriving city as much as the next person, but I hate overcrowding and the problems that come with it. I think everyone rushing back into the cities would honestly cause more harm than good at this point.

That said, I don't think it's anything we'll have to worry about in the near future. With the rising popularity of e-commerce and doing every via computers, it will be easier than ever for people to live AND work in the suburbs. Even with rising gas prices, the suburbs will still be a pracitcal option for people in many professions.
An excellent point. I work out of my house, and my commute is from my bedroom to my study. I work with my 12 clients via phone or e-mail. Maybe once a week or so do I have an actual face-to-face meeting with anybody.

The result? The only driving I do is taking kids to school, to the store, or to the ball field--and those are all within a two mile radius of my house. I suppose I could walk or bike there if I really needed to. However, the net result is the same. I typically go two weeks without having to fill up my gas tank.
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:59 PM
 
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It's kind of funny watching the prices of older more urban homes holding steady and in some cases climbing while all the cookie cutter McMansions that fall apart after 10 years can't be given away. I live in the city and nothing would thrill me more than to see all the scumbags living way out in the boonies. Just like it was in the good ol' days.
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Old 03-07-2008, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 16,674,412 times
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In St. Louis you can buy a building for cheap and fix it up for cheaper than you could buy a newer home in the suburbs. Plus you probably won't have to pay as much for gas if you work in the city, and there are a lot of restaurants and entertainment near you. The only problem can be schools, but sometimes for what you save on the house you can afford private schools.

A lot of younger people grew up in the suburbs and find them boring, and some empty-nesters are coming into cities for the convenience of it.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,770,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder View Post
It's kind of funny watching the prices of older more urban homes holding steady and in some cases climbing while all the cookie cutter McMansions that fall apart after 10 years can't be given away. I live in the city and nothing would thrill me more than to see all the scumbags living way out in the boonies. Just like it was in the good ol' days.
I hope you are speaking of the denizens of the McMansions, not those of us that live out in the boonies by choice, to get away from those people...
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 16,674,412 times
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I live way out in the boonies, not a suburb. I like the city, but for now I'm in a town of 400 3 hours from any major city like St. Louis or Memphis.
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:24 AM
 
480 posts, read 800,777 times
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Sorry, but I really hate cracker jack, vinyl sided pre constructed housing....please don't "manufacture" my house some place else then barge it to the US and plop in a pre-planned community. I'ma need just a little bit of character please. LOL!

LMAO @ McMansions! Those houses are not the business! LOL!
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