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Old 03-12-2008, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,522 posts, read 12,284,915 times
Reputation: 3827

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
I cant speak for Elk Grove Cal., or the Charlotte suburbs but there is nothing remotely close to that picture the writer paints in metro Philadelphia.The suburban communities surrounding Philadlephia continue to grow at 5-15% as more and more money, more an more jobs become entrenched in the suburban communities despite the fact that Philadephia already has a terrific downtown area. The suburban public schools are impeccable, crime almost non existent. It's impossible for me to envision the apocalypic collapse of the suburbs that the author suggests. IMO looks like he wanted to play devils advocate and argue a point for the sake of a new article.
I suspect land development patterns are somewhat different in different regions of the country. Older industrial cities like Philadelphia developed much earlier than new sunbelt cities like Atlanta, Houstin, and Phoenix and have the heritage of large entrenched poor populations, and older crumbling infrastructure. Maybe Philadelphia is in terminal decline and the suburbs will continue to grow inexorably until they merge with the suburbs of NYC.

I've tried to give the Chicago perspective, which is of a large industrial city which has largely shed its rust-belt past. The central city is gentrifying and already has seen an exodus of the poor to the suburbs. Some formerly suburban employers are relocating into the central business district (to be fair, its a small trickle not a tsunami.) I'd imagine that this centripetal pull would only get stronger if gas prices continue to climb.

I'd be more curious to hear the perspective of the sunbelt cities.
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:16 PM
 
Location: San Diego
939 posts, read 2,829,194 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Since I dont follow direction from others well, I am responding. That was uncalled for, and just plain rude. If you dont like the thread, dont respond, as the mods would say.........
I never said that I didn't like the thread. I'm clearly giving my view of suburbs and since they work in San diego as I am suspecting that a similar case goes for many other cities, there is no reason for anyone to state otherwise. It's rude to generalize. I'm flexing my freedom of of speech to point that out, u communist dictator!
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Virginia
654 posts, read 1,100,676 times
Reputation: 342
Honestly, why are so many people here so concerned about where other people decide to live? Just because you may think that living in the city is the greatest thing in the world doesn't mean that everyone else should too - remember it's still a free country and all. It also certainly says alot about the type of person you are (you know who you are) for hoping for the failure and misfortune of those who prefer to live in the 'burbs. Frankly, I do not have any respect for people with these kinds of sentiments. These are the types of people who would be tyrants, determining how and where you should live your life based on THEIR personal prefrences, if only they had the power to implement their 'big ideas'.
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Old 03-12-2008, 04:24 PM
Status: "I'm an Unmherkun puppy-kicking Socialist" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,034 posts, read 2,117,590 times
Reputation: 3778
Consider that the more self sufficient suburbs (usually ones with more than 100,000 people) might gradually redevelop into cities in their own right - especially of the larger metros with lots of commuters into the city). If today's suburban governments are smart, this is what they'd start planning for more densely built developments where the oldest/lowest quality housing now sits. If there's plenty of open space near office parks, that's even better (walking or biking along a sheltered walkway to the office park is a lot cheaper than driving there, plus the workers get good exercise).

That'd be a relative cheap insurance policy against the future possibility that American suburbs might end up like French Suburbs (a.k.a. home of the underclass)
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:57 PM
 
2,502 posts, read 8,047,857 times
Reputation: 885
^Agreed. It seems like the transformation is already happening. Large suburbs are becoming self-sufficient, almost like small cities.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,715,256 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCali4LifeSD View Post
omg! what's wrong with you people? cities aren't for everyone. if that were the case, suburbs wouldn't be as popular as they are. in my home town of san diego, more then half the metro is suburb but functioning better then ever!!! most of san diego's suburbs are functioning even better then the intercity. with san diego's topography, it's imperative that the city should be set up like a suburb. a very dense suburb that is. it works well for us, so i don't want your stupid opinions! don't even respond to this post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Since I dont follow direction from others well, I am responding. That was uncalled for, and just plain rude. If you dont like the thread, dont respond, as the mods would say.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCali4LifeSD View Post
I never said that I didn't like the thread. I'm clearly giving my view of suburbs and since they work in San diego as I am suspecting that a similar case goes for many other cities, there is no reason for anyone to state otherwise. It's rude to generalize. I'm flexing my freedom of of speech to point that out, u communist dictator!


-sigh- yet again, emotion defies reason. No one stated that you did not have the right to state your manifesto, however, it was rather uncalled to forbid reply, as stated in your first epistle, clearly forbidding the erstwhile statement.
In the gentle diplomacy called debate, one does not call the opposition dictators or other unkind statements, perhaps you have been viewing too much televised content on the presidential debacle?
If you will kindly review Roberts Rules, and other guidebooks, (perhaps Miss Manners or Emily Post?) one might have a reasonable debate within the parameters you have set forth about San Diego.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,908 posts, read 12,522,273 times
Reputation: 2631
Exactly.

Heres 2 new projects underway 5 miles from each near King of Prussia which is 12 miles west of Philadelphia.KOP is already a regional shopping destination with a 2 million sq ft ultra high end shopping mall and proximity to about 60 million sq.feet of office parks. It is arguably the new core of the region.


Village at Valley Forge King of Prussia Pa.

1 M sq ft of retail
3000 residential units
500 unit hotel









Uptown at Worthington Malvern Pa.

Notice the mcmansions are about 1/2 mile from one of the dozens of nearby office parks. Yep those same suburban office parks that the author completely overlooked and failed to mention in his doomsday scenario.

1 M sq. ft of retail
200 sq feet office
800 residential units

http://www.worthingtonmalvern.com/images/gallery/full/elevation19.jpg (broken link)

http://www.worthingtonmalvern.com/images/gallery/full/elevation17.jpg (broken link)
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:23 PM
 
583 posts, read 1,139,647 times
Reputation: 323
This is a very interesting thread, party because there isn't an easy answer that would apply to every metro area.

I think that some suburbs will decline and turn into drug infested battlefields eventually when enough of the poorest population and homeless will be pushed out of the cities and the wealthier suburbs. It's already happening in some major metropolitan areas. What I see also is that some suburbs will continue to thrive and will become sort of enclaves with their cutesy city centers (fake little 'mixed use' high-rise areas filled with luxury condos, townhouses and generic chain stores and restaurants). Street malls will become less and less popular as suburbanites will gravitate towards the 'city-centers' with their movie theaters, bars, restaurants and shopping (albeit generic but still all in one place that's developed to be walkable). That's a new trend nowadays. Rich suburbs are getting their own slice of sterile city-heaven in their backyard and the way they like it, with all the familiar major mall stores and chain restaurants and without the 'undesirable element'.

Some cities that are already gentrifying and are doing better will continue to do so, but will mostly house the wealthier layer of migrants from suburbs. I doubt the credit-crunched middle American suburbanites will pony up more cash to live in much more expensive city dwellings. The lofts and luxury condos in many downtowns across America are not necessarily affordable housing options especially for families. But I really hope to see some families coming to the cities, I heard it's also becoming a trend to raise your kid in the city and I wholeheartedly support these courageous parents! In the meanwhile I am saving the cash for those private schools

As far as EVERYBODY either moving one direction or another, I seriously doubt this will happen. I think that the population is going to split with some moving into the cities and some staying in the burbs. Whatever suits you better.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:45 PM
 
1,763 posts, read 5,380,161 times
Reputation: 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by compelled to reply View Post
You can't forget about the rising oil prices and bell curve oil production (the curve is going down now guys, accept it) that makes suburbia almost completely unsustainable, considering it's based entirely on getting in your car.
I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about this. Peak oil seems to be under the radar for so many people, but as the effects of it intensify over the coming decade, "car-based" suburbia will indeed become unsustainable.

Inner residential areas around cities and towns will prosper, and will continue to enjoy more or less modern lifestyles. Bedroom communities and far-out burbs will suffer horribly.

For a down and dirty intro to peak oil, watch A Crude Awakening.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:46 PM
 
Location: IN
20,846 posts, read 35,937,611 times
Reputation: 13287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil75230 View Post
Consider that the more self sufficient suburbs (usually ones with more than 100,000 people) might gradually redevelop into cities in their own right - especially of the larger metros with lots of commuters into the city). If today's suburban governments are smart, this is what they'd start planning for more densely built developments where the oldest/lowest quality housing now sits. If there's plenty of open space near office parks, that's even better (walking or biking along a sheltered walkway to the office park is a lot cheaper than driving there, plus the workers get good exercise).

That'd be a relative cheap insurance policy against the future possibility that American suburbs might end up like French Suburbs (a.k.a. home of the underclass)
Overland Park KS, a suburb of the KC metro area, is trying to do some of the things you mentioned. They are redeveloping some of the older areas of the city, and want to increase the population density near existing office park clusters. In terms of transit they want to redesign a major street and make it more pedestrian friendly with a potential transit line running in the middle of the street.
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