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Old 03-10-2017, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
The Eastern part of Great Plains states are culturally Midwestern while the Western parts are where the West begins.
And in all four states over half (if not two thirds) of the population is in the eastern half, which is why they are all considered Midwestern on balance.
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
The Eastern part of Great Plains states are culturally Midwestern while the Western parts are where the West begins.
Where's the diving line? Is Nebraska Western or Midwestern? How about Kansas? N/S Dakota? Missouri is also an oddball.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaskingIguana View Post
Midwest is a fictatious region anyways. If NYS and Pennsylvania were to suddenly split in half, I'm sure the Western half everyone would call Midwestern.

Not really. It would still be too far east and belong in the Northeast. Pittsburgh is at the same longitude as Miami, an east coast city. All of Pennsylvania is further east than the westernmost part of the East Coast. Even Ohio gets sometimes mislabelled as "Northeast," so imagine how far east western PA and western NY are. Idk what you mean by "fictatious region." Its an official region of the US. The name Midwest may be a bit of a misnomer, "Midnorth" would be more accurate, but its not "fictatious" or even arbitrary. Its generally defined by its geography. In the north, not too far west, not too far east. Its the north central US. Its just as "fictitious" as "Northeast."
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Yes, it is kind of strange that the Southeast goes from the Atlantic Ocean all the way to the wide and mighty Mississippi River. Yet the Northeast goes from the Atlantic Ocean all the way to...... well actually it doesn't go all the way, the Northeast just sort of ends all of a sudden at the Pennsylvania-Ohio border!

And the South continues west of the Mississippi River as the South Central all the way to the Texas-New Mexico border. Meanwhile the word North has disappeared into a large area called the Midwest. Its kind of strange because while all the Midwestern states are northern, some of the them are not western at all.

Actually if you look at a map, the Southeast is not all that larger from east-west than the Northeast. The Southeast is Virginia to Louisiana (Texas is the South but its not Southeast, too far west) but Virginia and NC which are the eastern most part of the Southeast, are as far west as central Pennsylvania, and eastern Maine goes much further east than the rest of the country. If you go to Google maps and get a ruler and measure how many inches on the screen it is from western PA to eastern ME then compare that with western AR and eastern NC you'll find its not that much different, just the northeast goes very far east. Most of Florida is at the same longitude of Ohio and thats the eastern part of the region.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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I'm not sure what you mean, yea I agree that the Great Lakes aren't "Midwestern" only, they're "Northern" as they encompass two northern regions.

I also agree that cities like St. Louis and Louisville are NOT Great Lakes cities. I've seen sources that labelled Minneapolis and Indianapolis as Great Lakes cities and they aren't either but at least they're in Great Lake States. Missouri? KENTUCKY? Why not Des Moines, IA and Omaha, NE while yer at it!

But is the Great Lakes not the most populated region of the Midwest, though? Include only the lake shores of MN, WI, IL, IN, MI and OH and I'm pretty sure its the largest part of the Midwest. Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee are in there. Those metro areas alone are about 17.4 million people and represent a little over a quarter of the Midwest's population. Add in all the other cities and towns, add in Michigan's entire population in general, you got a lot of people in the Midwestern Great Lakes.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:22 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,845,880 times
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Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
I'm not sure what you mean, yea I agree that the Great Lakes aren't "Midwestern" only, they're "Northern" as they encompass two northern regions.

I also agree that cities like St. Louis and Louisville are NOT Great Lakes cities. I've seen sources that labelled Minneapolis and Indianapolis as Great Lakes cities and they aren't either but at least they're in Great Lake States. Missouri? KENTUCKY? Why not Des Moines, IA and Omaha, NE while yer at it!

But is the Great Lakes not the most populated region of the Midwest, though? Include only the lake shores of MN, WI, IL, IN, MI and OH and I'm pretty sure its the largest part of the Midwest. Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee are in there. Those metro areas alone are about 17.4 million people and represent a little over a quarter of the Midwest's population. Add in all the other cities and towns, add in Michigan's entire population in general, you got a lot of people in the Midwestern Great Lakes.
It's hard because other than shoreline cities or metros, defining where the Great Lakes ends is not a simple task. Like Indiana has a shore on Lake Michigan but it is tiny and it is unfair to call Indianapolis which is almost 200 miles south a Great Lakes city.

I wonder if we took the population of Shoreline Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and added it to the entire population of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Duluth would we get a better idea.

Once you start including Columbus or Indy it starts to get desperate. Pittsburgh is closer to Lake Erie than Columbus is but of course we can't count it as it is in the Northeast.

It's just more accurate to call the Great Lakes the most dense but it is also unfair to the rest of the region to act like the predominant Midwest population or culture is Great Lakes based. Like once you get to MSP there is no more Great Lakes region.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
It's a bit more than that. Michigan and New Hampshire, for example, share more cultural commonalities with each other than either does with Missouri and Pennsylvania respectively.
Wait....what?

I'm from Michigan, and I've lived in Pennsylvania before, and trust me - they're not as different culturally as you'd think. Ditto with Missouri.

While there definitely is a North-South gradient making things complicated, there's usually a gradient in culture based on distance due to interactions with other regions. So Chicago shares more with St. Louis and Indianapolis than it does with Buffalo, for example, even though the "accent region" may tell a different story.
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Tampa - St. Louis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
I'm not sure what you mean, yea I agree that the Great Lakes aren't "Midwestern" only, they're "Northern" as they encompass two northern regions.

I also agree that cities like St. Louis and Louisville are NOT Great Lakes cities. I've seen sources that labelled Minneapolis and Indianapolis as Great Lakes cities and they aren't either but at least they're in Great Lake States. Missouri? KENTUCKY? Why not Des Moines, IA and Omaha, NE while yer at it!

But is the Great Lakes not the most populated region of the Midwest, though? Include only the lake shores of MN, WI, IL, IN, MI and OH and I'm pretty sure its the largest part of the Midwest. Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee are in there. Those metro areas alone are about 17.4 million people and represent a little over a quarter of the Midwest's population. Add in all the other cities and towns, add in Michigan's entire population in general, you got a lot of people in the Midwestern Great Lakes.
Well if you want to get that technical. About 800,000 St. Louisans live in the Metro East, making them citizens of Illinois and technically Great Lake Staters. So St. Louis could be seen as a quasi-Great Lake, river city but in all honesty I don't think it's that cut in dry. Chicago for example has way more historical, cultural and economic connections to St. Louis than it does to Cleveland or Buffalo, but the later are technically "Great Lake" cities and by definition should have more in common right?
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Tampa - St. Louis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
Wait....what?

I'm from Michigan, and I've lived in Pennsylvania before, and trust me - they're not as different culturally as you'd think. Ditto with Missouri.

While there definitely is a North-South gradient making things complicated, there's usually a gradient in culture based on distance due to interactions with other regions. So Chicago shares more with St. Louis and Indianapolis than it does with Buffalo, for example, even though the "accent region" may tell a different story.
Exactly, and St. Louis actually shares a similar accent to Great Lake Cities because of its age and history of industrialization. Also state lines do not tell the whole story. While Southwestern Missouri might as well be Oklahoma or Arkansas, the St. Louis region would fit right in with Illinois politics. I'm sure the same can be said with other states, Northern Ohio and Indiana were historically bastions of Unionism while Southern Ohio and Indiana might as well be Kentucky.
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:57 AM
 
Location: Yakima WA
4,403 posts, read 4,609,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat314 View Post
Exactly, and St. Louis actually shares a similar accent to Great Lake Cities because of its age and history of industrialization. Also state lines do not tell the whole story. While Southwestern Missouri might as well be Oklahoma or Arkansas, the St. Louis region would fit right in with Illinois politics. I'm sure the same can be said with other states, Northern Ohio and Indiana were historically bastions of Unionism while Southern Ohio and Indiana might as well be Kentucky.
I always wondered why the St. Louis accent sounds like the Great Lakes cities and not like the rest of Missouri which sounds much more Southern to me.
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