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Old 03-14-2017, 05:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPonteKC View Post
What? 1. St Louis isn't very Irish and never was. 2. Neither are many of the cities that have a Great Lakes accent. 3. Little or nothing about the Irish accent influenced the Great Lakes accent. 4. The St. Louis accent isn't a Great Lakes accent anyway.
Lol

Do you really want to have this discussion? The second largest ethnic group in the history of St. Louis was the Irish. And Chicago's most powerful ethnic group was historically the Irish. They exerted the strongest influence and Chicago is the most "Great Lakes accented " city in the region.

Nobody claimed St. Louis was in the Great Lakes either. At least I didn't. As far as accent goes, it is considered the furthest South extension of Great Lakes *features*.

Finally, the Irish didn't influence the Great Lakes accent? Then why are some Northern City Vowels identical or very close to Irish short vowels? One example is the short U. The way a word like "up", "but", "cut" is pronounced in the Great Lakes is heard in Ireland and many Irish heavy areas of the world, like in Northern England (example is bus sounds like boss). Another example is how in St. Louis the word for rhymes with far. Again, Irish. Or how in the Great Lakes a word like car or start is pronounced with an open mouth "broad A" instead of a more closed mouth sound. Again, Irish. Although there is reason to believe that has always been in the Great Lakes due to East Anglian English so that one I may grant as not exclusively Irish. However th-stopping is a VERY Irish trait and is one of the most noticeable sounds of the Great Lakes.

It is ridiculous to discount the Irish presence in the Great Lakes. I know the Great Lakes accent is mostly from England (in origin and long vowels) but Irish managed to make significant changes to it. Other changes are uniquely American (universal short A tensing being one of them). That or such a change is so unique it is hard to track where it came from.

This is not to say St. Louis or the Great Lakes have Irish accents. They don't. Rather they have Irish carryovers on top of the already present English roots and these unique combos happened in America thus they are purely American in overall sound.

Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 03-14-2017 at 07:13 PM..
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Windsor Ontario/Colchester Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat314 View Post
I would have to disagree with that. In what way is the Twin Cities the 2nd most influential city in the Midwest? It's far removed the geographic and population center of the Midwest, it's also demographically and culturally pretty different than the rest of the greater Midwest.
Detroit is the second largest and second most influential city in the Midwest, Twin Cities are still 3rd!
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,066 posts, read 3,393,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat314 View Post
I would have to disagree with that. In what way is the Twin Cities the 2nd most influential city in the Midwest? It's far removed the geographic and population center of the Midwest, it's also demographically and culturally pretty different than the rest of the greater Midwest.

I don't think the Twin Cities are the 2nd most influential cities in the Midwest, thats probably Detroit, however I don't think they're THAT removed from the geographic and population centre either. They're pretty far north but they're not that remote like some people swear they are. People talk about Minneapolis-St. Paul like its Fargo. Its not that far from Chicago, Milwaukee, Des Moines, St. Louis, Omaha and Kansas City. Demographically and culturally its not different at all. Scandinavians, Germans, Polish, Irish, African Americans.. how are these not typical of the Midwest? You find all those groups all over the Midwest many of these more in the Midwest than in any other region. Culturally? Theres very strong similarities with Michigan and Wisconsin including accents, ancestry, religion, demographics. It may be a little removed compared to southern Indiana, southern Missouri or Kansas but its hardly an outlier in the region in the way Miami is in the South. Economically its probably only second to Chicago.
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:28 PM
 
Location: IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat314 View Post
I would have to disagree with that. In what way is the Twin Cities the 2nd most influential city in the Midwest? It's far removed the geographic and population center of the Midwest, it's also demographically and culturally pretty different than the rest of the greater Midwest.
It's the second largest metro in the Midwest in terms of economic output, GDP.
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:29 PM
 
Location: IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
The Twin Cities are not in the Great Lakes region. They are like eastern Iowa in the sense that they are neither Great Lakes or Great Plains. St Paul is a river city.
Minnesota is a Great Lakes state due to having frontage on Lake Superior, city of Duluth.
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Minnesota is a Great Lakes state due to having frontage on Lake Superior, city of Duluth.
True but Minneapolis-St. Paul aren't Great Lakes cities, just like how Pensacola isn't East Coast and Miami isn't Gulf Coast. Minneapolis-St. Paul are upper Mississippi River cities.
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Old 03-15-2017, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Minnesota is a Great Lakes state due to having frontage on Lake Superior, city of Duluth.
Is New York City a Great Lakes city because New York state has Great Lakes shore front?
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:41 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,138 posts, read 9,917,638 times
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Default Are they Great Lakes Cities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
Is New York City a Great Lakes city because New York state has Great Lakes shore front?
Exactly what I was asking. Also is Philadelphia a Great Lake City because Pennsylvania has a coastline along Lake Erie?

I think we are using too WIDE a definition here for what a Great Lake City is (not to mention btw what a river valley is). IMHO, Great Lake Cities are like the Chicago, Duluth, Cleveland, Detroit-Windsor, Milwaukee, Toledo, Hamilton, Toronto, Erie, Buffalo and Rochester areas where people are close enough to get to the water easily in a few minutes. You do not need to travel to a Great lake for two hours or more to get there.

People in the Cincinnati, Philadelphia, New York City and St Louis areas are in a Great Lakes state (St Louis being next to Illinois) but they are not on the Great Lakes. They cannot normally go for a quick trip to the lakeshore on a Sunday afternoon like people say in Chicago can.

IMO, the ones that are debatable are the cities that are not on the Great Lakes but not exactly far away like Indianapolis, Madison, Columbus and Syracuse.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,322,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Exactly what I was asking. Also is Philadelphia a Great Lake City because Pennsylvania has a coastline along Lake Erie?

I think we are using too WIDE a definition here for what a Great Lake City is (not to mention btw what a river valley is). IMHO, Great Lake Cities are like the Chicago, Duluth, Cleveland, Detroit-Windsor, Milwaukee, Toledo, Hamilton, Toronto, Erie, Buffalo and Rochester areas where people are close enough to get to the water easily in a few minutes. You do not need to travel to a Great lake for two hours or more to get there.

People in the Cincinnati, Philadelphia, New York City and St Louis areas are in a Great Lakes state (St Louis being next to Illinois) but they are not on the Great Lakes. They cannot normally go for a quick trip to the lakeshore on a Sunday afternoon like people say in Chicago can.

IMO, the ones that are debatable are the cities that are not on the Great Lakes but not exactly far away like Indianapolis, Madison, Columbus and Syracuse.
Columbus and Indy are 2-3 hours away from a lake, as is MSP.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:15 AM
 
Location: IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
True but Minneapolis-St. Paul aren't Great Lakes cities, just like how Pensacola isn't East Coast and Miami isn't Gulf Coast. Minneapolis-St. Paul are upper Mississippi River cities.
I would say Minnesota as a whole is more of a Great Lakes state than Great Plains state. The overarching qualification of one or the other is complicated. The Twin Cities itself are not specifically a Great Lakes city.
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