Philadelphia or Minneapolis (real estate, apartments, rental market)

[Luke81]

Good day everybody!
You're sure all sick of questions like this, but I need an answer! This is not a question which city is better or a Minneapolis vs. Philadelphia thread, I'd just like to know which city would be better for me personally. I'd be working there as a high school German teacher, and I know both cities are great but I really can't decide. I would make 29,700 in Philadelphia and 28,040 in Minneapolis, so I couldn't afford to live in a posh neighbourhood. I looked at both cities very closely, and found they both had a lot of pros and some cons. I think statistics can never say as much as personal experience, so I'm asking you, if you could please tell me something.

Climate:
How horrible is the cold really in Minneapolis, and how long is the winter? Is it usually cloudy or sunny and how windy is it?
Seems to me like Philadelphia's winter is rather mild, but therefore summer is horrible. How bad is the heat and humidity?

Politics:
I consider myself liberal, but I don't have a problem with conservatives as long as they're not extreme religious fanatics. I heard Philadelphia is very corrupt, is it true? Where I am now it's not really corrupt, but you make it only if you know the right people. It makes you sometimes really sick.

Cost of living:
The cheaper the better of course I'll make quite little in the beginning, because I'll be getting sort of an external-native-speaker-contract, but would get a normal teacher contract after a few years and make about 40,000. Is it possible to live with about 800 or 900 dollars rent in a save neighbourhood not too far away from downtown in any of the cities? I would settle for a suburb also, but I'd prefer the city.

Public transport:
Minneapolis' transport seems not too good, but improving, I couldn't find a lot of info on Philadelphia. I really like to be able to get around n the weekend without having to drive and waste your nerves in the traffic.

Safety:
This is really a major issue, it looks like Minneapolis is quite safe, but I'm not so sure about Philadelphia. When I compared I found there were 406 murders in Philadelphia in 2006 !!!!?????!!!! and 29 in vienna, where I live now, and vienna is actually bigger than philadelhia.. I'd also be teaching at a public school in both cities, I've got no problem with kids believing they are cool, and not listening to me, I know how to deal with them, but is there a risk of being shot in class? Probably people on this forum are overacting but I've read comments now for about a month and some people wrote as if one couldn't leave your house in Philadelphia without being robbed... What about Minneapolis, Philadelphia has a crime index of 667.0 in 2005, Minneapolis had 769.9, still you always hear it's a safe city, I'm confused!!

Single scene:
Well, I'm single, in my late 20s, not yet looking to build a family, I want to have some fun with nice intelligent and open-minded people. I read people in Minneapolis stay rather to themselves while Philadelphians are uneducated, but I think that are just generalisations. Where can one have more fun?

Architecture:
From pictures it seems like Philadelphia is simply beautiful with great architecture, 19th century row houses etc. ("Walked" through the city for hours in google map's streetview mode) But could I afford to rent there? I don't know about Minneapolis, in general you only see downtown pictures.

Thanks everybody for taking your time reading this, please all Philadelphians and Minneapolitans (or St. Paulians) answer

[quickdraw]

Minneapolis is hotter than you think in the summer. Not as humid as philly, but a lot hotter than I thought it would be. If you don't like the cold Minneapolis is out of the question though. I'd prefer Minneapolis. With your income you'll have a much better chance of living in an area where you won't have trouble. Philadelphia is a fairly dangerous place if you're not living in a wealthy neighborhood.

Philly people will dispute this, but it's true.

Will you be working in the city in a public school system? Our urban public schools are nothing like the schools in Vienna, unless you are in a school for gifted students.

[Lillietta]

You've done your research well, and it's quite accurate. One addition is that there is beautiful architecture, both in Mpls and St. Paul.

Singles scene exists here but it is largely a family-oriented area, and the people are rather remote in general and friendships can be hard to form, but they are polite and nice and can be helpful - just don't get too close (you may be lucky though, depending on coworkers or wherever else you might be in a position to meet people). The Twin Cities are beautiful with pristine parks, bike trails, at least five beautiful lakes within the city.

Our climate here is extreme - can be brutally cold in winter and very hot and humid and summer with barely no spring and a very short autumn.

The pace is nice. Traffic is light compared to other big cities, though most Twin Cities people won't agree, but if you come from bigger cities, you will see the difference. Life is E-A-S-Y here, so easy that the drivers tend to be unaware which is frustrating.

In summary, it's a quiet place, for the most part, public transportation leaves a lot to be desired, family-oriented, and though crime has greatly increased in Minneapolis, it's still pretty safe, quiet, and oh such an easy life. I hope you can visit before you make a decision. My husband and I took a trip here the day after Christmas many years ago with the snow all over the place and fell in love with it.

[Minnehahapolitan]

Climate - Mpls. is colder, but I think it is more adapted to its climate. Downtown is enclosed by climate-controlled walkways linking the second floors of buildings, streets are plowed as it is snowing, et. cetera. Philadelphia's winter will not be as cold, but they are not as well prepered. The coldest days here are the sunniest. Mpls. can get hot also, it usually hits 90F a few time per year. Winter lasts from about now (it just snowed) through late March. It was cold by Halloween. Fall has alot of temperature fluxuation.
Politics - I don't know Phila. politics very well. Mpls. was settled by alot of Scandinavians, and culture and politics reflects that. The old Minnespolis is "socially cautious", but really doesn't care about how you live. It is very laissez-faire in that way. The urban areas of The Cities are consistently liberal. The newer Mpls. is very progressive both socially and economically. Suburban areas can be pretty conservative. We aren't Boston, but closer to Boston than Phoenix.
Cost of Living - Phila. is cheap for an Eastern city, but Mpls. is cheaper. Depending on how big of an apartment you want, you could get a place in a good area close to downtown for that. It won't have two bedrooms. You could pull off a studio near a busline in a good area for less than your stated budget.
Transportation - Phila. easily wins here, but if you live in the urban area of either city, the respective systems are pretty reliable. Minneapolis has one train running between downtown, the airport and The Mall of America. A new line is in development which would link Downtown Mpls., The Univ. of Minn. and downtown Saint Paul. The major buslines in the City of Mpls. run every 15 minutes; so if you get a place near Nicollet, Hennepin, Central, et. cetera. you can always get downtown (which has most everything one would need).
Safety - Phila. is a more dangerous city. It isn't Johannesburg or Bogota. Mpls. is much safer. Most murders occur during other illegal activities. Unless you are a drug dealer, prostitute, et. cetera, you will generally be fine. There are nuisance crimes, but that is true for any urban area here. You are most likely to have your house broken into, and there are alot of simple procautions which can be taken to deter that sort of crime. Most everyday people have no problem with crime if they know were to be and how to act.
You have almost no chance of being harmed as a teacher in an urban school. I would dare say that you would be in more danger in a suburban school. Most Columbine-type shootings occur in suburban areas.
Relationships - Mpls. is more insular than Phila.. There are alot of young people here, though. The city is highly educated. Once you meet people, they have the sort of strong bond which is unusual in alot of places.
Architecture - Phila. is better for architecture. Mpls. lost alot of their downtown buildings to wanton urban renewal projects. Those that are still around (and there are quite a few), are cared for. Saint Paul has alot more buildings in their downtown, but it is not half as vibrant as Mpls. The residential areas of the city saved more of their old buildings. Mpls. does not have the Phila. row houses. There are alot of brick apartment buildings, alot of duplexes and alot of single-family homes on small lots. There are alot of newer buildings which are architecturally significant. I suppose the best analogy would be Berlin. Alot was lost, but it was pretty tastefully rebuilt. Most suburban areas are built post-war and have very few modern buildings that are to be admired. There are a few exceptions for suburban areas which are close to Mpls. proper.

Here is a site that has a good number of Mpls. photos. It covers nearly every area of The City. cgstock.com homepage (formerly Phototour of Minneapolis) - Worldwide Stock Photography

Hope this answered some questions for you. Good luck.
----Minnehahapolitan

[TimNJtoCT]

I can comment on Philly since I'm originally from there. I no longer live there now.
1) Politically, the city if known for corruption. New mayor coming in in Jan. Democrats win by a landslide usually. The last election, the local news hyped up the Democrat primary in May more than the November election because whoever won the Democrat primary always was going to be the next mayor. Sure enough, he won by a landslide in Nov.
2) Certain areas aren't safe but some still are. You really would need an experienced real estate agent to show you around. Yes the murder rate is high, but if you put a push pin in a map of Philly for each murder, would you have a few large sections that had the majority of the incidents.
3) Architechture is great. Musuems and historical sites are abundant and inexpensive.
4) location.... location.... location... a major benefit... you can be at the beach in a hour (Atlantic City/Wildwood); you can be in NYC, Baltimore, or DC in about 2 - 3 hrs via train or car.

I've gone NYC on Sunday on the train, had lunch, saw a show and come back. We've done the same with the Inner Harbor in Baltimore.

4) Weather is ok. Summers can get humid. Winter usually brings 1 significant snow storm and a few other smaller storms that are more of a nuisance. I like have the 4 season and it does offer that.

Hope this helps

[Luke81]

Thank you everybody, you are a lot of help. Thanks espeially for the pictures of Minneapolis Minnehahapolitan. It looks a lot bigger than I imagined. If Minneapolis really is sunny when it's cold, it's okay, but at the moment I'm suffering so much from austrian winters, where you get highs of about 35F, snow only someimes like once a month, rain 3-4 times a week, a consistent cloud cover from late october to mid march and winds whichbring the cold throuh every jacket.. actually love snow!

[rainrock]

You could find something in center city Philadlephia for $800-900 a month but its going to be a studio or 1 bedroom apartment, and it will be modest at that.Nicer 1 bedroom apartments in Philly start at about $1800. Its a big rental market due to lots of college students/ young professionals/medical schools. Although there is occassional crime in center city its relatively safe here. Where Philly racks up the bulk of its crime stats are in the ghetto areas.

Philadelphia public schools for the most part are not very good. Depending where you were placed it could be quite a challenge, you need to keep that in mind. You dont want any parts of North Philly. NE Philly-NW Philly-Center City-University City-parts of South Philly are in good shape. N. Philly-SW Philly-parts of west Philly will be big challenge.

The suburban Philadelphia public schools are a completely different story. The further you head away from the city the better the schools are. The payscale would also increase dramatically but I imagine there is much stiffer competition applying for jobs in the suburbs. Also The suburbs except for a few exceptions(West Chester) are pretty boring and very family oriented.

Good luck.

[Futcha]

Luke, Philly has 18th Century rowhouses. Even some 17th Century ones.

[st. louie louie]

Philadelphia has rowhouses from the 1600's???

My vote for you would be Philly.
I like the area just south of downtown because of it's density, lifestyle, architecture, etc.
And I like Philly because of it's proximity to Wash. DC, NYC, Boston, the ocean.

[Futcha]

Not a great amount of them, but we saw some. Philly, NYC, and Boston all have some buildings from the 1600s.