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Old 03-20-2017, 01:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
Wrong! Fort Bend County was blue in the presidential election.
2016 was a single year, one in which the Republican candidate was strangely anti-free trade.

@Brad, adjusting for COL is important because the official poverty rate means different things in different states. Adjusted for COL, four of the ten most impoverished states are blue, New York, California, Nevada, and Hawaii, as is DC, while the rest are red (except Florida, which may be purple). In the best ten, four are red, Iowa is purple, and five are blue.

 
Old 03-20-2017, 02:02 PM
 
Location: 352
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This is more complicated than that. I'm basically seeing "it's the democrats faults!" and "it's the republicans fault!", when it's really everyone's fault. I'm seeing more "let me push my political agenda" rather than just answering the question. Both red and blue have their highs and their lows.

In South Carolina for instance, many of the poorest counties are generally blue, but many red counties are also pretty dirt poor. Taking a look at South Carolina schools, we have some really, really good districts, but also many very bad districts and schools. That's not because it's dem or repub ran, it's because the state does a very poor job on school funding, and the way we allocate funds to each district needs to be changed.

We have the "corridor of shame" along I-95 for this reason, not because its a blue region, but because it's heavily rural and economically neglected. Lexington County for instance, one of SC's richest counties, red, has high schools in the northern portion of the county that look like Taj Mahal's and rival some small colleges, while the lower end has shacks in comparison. Has nothing to do with red or blue, it has to do with state neglect, tax base, and urban vs rural.

And for places like Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, New Orleans, St Louis, etc...you can't just blanket and say "oh they're poor because they're blue." No, they're poor because they were once thriving, but the invention of the interstate system allowed the richer whites to peace out and mold suburbs - white flight - while the poorer, disenfranchised blacks stayed behind in the cities. Skilled jobs left the cities for the suburbs, overseas, or automation.

These cities effectively lost a great deal of their tax base and their skill, which then put them on downward spirals. And it didn't help that these highways sliced and diced through the cities, literally cutting off neighborhoods, which created isolation and blight and further exasperated crime and other issues. Those people who were left behind never got the chance to gain new skills, so the jobs that did come back to the cities were molded for people commuting from suburbs or gentrifying hipsters and techies. So crime, etc continues to prevail. It's not a red or blue problem, it's a neglect problem.

I HATE it when people go "hey what about Chicago!" without taking a minute to even realize how Chicago got to how it is. That's is why Chicago is what it is. Blacks used to thrive there. It's not like they all of a sudden decided "hey, let's be democrats and start gangs and start shooting each other!" A big reason young boys join gangs in the first place is because it gives them a sense of being wanted, since the city basically neglected them.

And then people want to focus on the big cities - what about places like West Virginia? The coal mining? Or Pittsburgh with steel? Or the south with tobacco, cotton, mills? Same problem. The jobs left and the towns/cities/regions didn't/couldn't adapt. They lost their skill and suffered. WV is all red. Most of these areas are red.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 02:03 PM
 
Location: 352
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Many blue counties are thriving, like Charleston and Richland in SC, which are two of SC's richest, or Wake, Durham, and Mecklenberg, which are three of NC's richest. Then again you have red Beaufort, York, Greenville, and Lexington doing very well in SC, and in NC you have Union and Cabarrus. Both red. And while blue Allendale and Bamberg aren't doing so hot, neither is red McCormick or Calhoun. Travis County is probably the hottest county in the country, and it's blue. And then you have Dallas, Harris, and Bexar, blue and booming. But then theres a handful of booming red counties in Texas as well. All the while, theres a handful of struggling and poor blue and red counties. Neither is immune. Stop trying to act like a red or blue problem. It's a problem with how America is structured.

It correlates with education. The north is more educated and it's been shown the more educated you are, the more money you'll make, the less chance youll commit (violent) crime, the longer you'll likely live, and the happier you'll likely be. I lived in Alexandria and Arlington, VA and everyone was in shape. I'd even see 70 year olds running and it made me get out and go run myself. Gyms and healthy food options on every corner. NOVA is also very diverse and NOVA as a whole has a "I mind my business" attitude.

But in SC and most of the south and plains, you don't see that much of that. With lower education, the problems are there. Education has never been a huge priority in most of the south, so it shouldn't be a surprise. This isn't a red or blue problem, it's an education problem. Everything - our health, our crime and abuse, our infrastructure, our incomes, it all ties back to education. We gotta get everyone on an equal field, no matter red or blue, to make America work. Education and demographics play a big role.

As for racism, I see it two ways. Typically the more 1. educated you are, and 2. the more you're around other races, the less likely you're going to be blatantly racist. Yeah the south has a bad history of racism, but whites and blacks are used to each other at this point. Racism isn't dead, but the only people who make it obvious in the south today and the ones with no education. Conversely, I saw a poll that had Oregon as the #2 racist state. That actually makes some sense because Oregon is pretty homogeneous. If you're not used to other races, you'll likely be more hostile. Unlike the south, many people in the NW and mountain west aren't used to the mixing. That's my take.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 02:08 PM
 
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It isn't for sure whether Dallas county is booming. If it is, it is disproportionately from the likely red suburbs within the county. There is a reason that the city of Dallas is sometimes call the hole in the economic donut.

I remember seeing as 2016 map overlapping education attainment and the candidate who won. If I remember correctly, outside of Travis County, the more educated counties in Texas voted red while the less educated counties voted blue.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,419 posts, read 11,923,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
It isn't for sure whether Dallas county is booming. If it is, it is disproportionately from the likely red suburbs within the county. There is a reason that the city of Dallas is sometimes call the hole in the economic donut.
Looks like the city has gained around 100,000 inhabitants in the last five years, so it must be doing something right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
I remember seeing as 2016 map overlapping education attainment and the candidate who won. If I remember correctly, outside of Travis County, the more educated counties in Texas voted red while the less educated counties voted blue.
Years back, I read a study which looked at the association between income and voting in three states - IIRC Alabama, Ohio, and Connecticut. In Alabama, how much money you made was strongly associated with how Republican you were. In Ohio, how much money you made was weakly correlated with how Republican you were. In Connecticut, there was no association at all - rich people and poor people had basically identical partisan leans.

Now, these studies did not break things down by race. Undoubtedly in all three states people of color were more likely to be poor, and more likely to vote for Democrats. But it did identify that one of the strongest differences between "red" and "blue" states was whether voting habits change as you go up the income scale.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 02:50 PM
 
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I am not Republican.

But the other thing the original thesis fails to take into account is that most of the Southern states were heavily Democratic for the large majority of recent history. As one example, Alabama elected its first Republican governor in 1985, and really didn't have de facto control over the governor's mansion until 2001. Further, Alabama didn't have a Republican majority in its legislation until 2011.

So given the century of mismanagement, corruption and the whatnot in most Southern states suffered at the hands of the Democratic Party, it's little surprise that those states have become overwhelmingly Republican. I mean, you can trot out all the pat little statements you want, but in truth, the Democratic Party did a miserable job of it in the South.

Heck, Kentucky just became a Red state in the 2016 election, given how the governor's mansion went Republican in 2015 and the state house only went Republican in the 2016 general election. There's no great mystery to this one. Back in the Spring, Hillary Clinton gave some stump speeches promising to shut down the coal mines. All those coal miners punished the Democratic Party accordingly.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,561,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
IIRC, if you factor in wages and COL, the Midwest tends to do the best, although the U.S. doesn't breakdown on regional lines.

This study found the top 10 performers were WY, WA, VA, ND, TX, OH, MI, CO, IL, and MN. The bottom 10 were NM, RI, SC, MT, NY, VT, CA, ME, WV, OR, and HI. So the top 10 are pretty much evenly split, but the bottom 10 lean blue.
WY/ND are resource extraction boom states, TX is too but has a much more diverse economy. VA is a lot of federal spillover.

Many of the bottom states are rural states.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,583 posts, read 4,001,460 times
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schools aren't underfunded in the south. moreover, increasing the funding won't make bad students into good students.

i lived in Maryland near DC for two years and not everybody up there is active and in great shape compared to people down south.

there is a ton of coal in West Virginia and other places. the past administration killed the coal industry with anti-coal policies, not a lack of coal.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 03:32 PM
 
Location: 352
5,122 posts, read 3,883,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
schools aren't underfunded in the south. moreover, increasing the funding won't make bad students into good students.

i lived in Maryland near DC for two years and not everybody up there is active and in great shape compared to people down south.

there is a ton of coal in West Virginia and other places. the past administration killed the coal industry with anti-coal policies, not a lack of coal.
1. Yes they are. Education has never been a huge southern priority. Even in North Carolina, which has two of the best universities in the world, the public school education still lacks. Do you want to be a teacher in NC? No.

Back in the old days with Tillman and co in charge, SC cared more about disenfranchising blacks and the poor than improving education for everyone. Even when it was time to integrate, instead of SC saying "okay, fine, let's integrate and get things improved", the state chose to invest their time in combating it instead, rather than fixing our schools. Everyone knows this. And SC is still majorly underfunded and it's a disgrace. If you deny it, you willfully ignorant because you don't want to admit it.

1b. And yes, more funding would turn "bad" students "good", because then schools could afford more resources, retain teachers who actually want to teach, and not keep taking kids out of their element.

2. Okay, you say you lived in Maryland - that's not Northern Virginia. It is known that the DC metro is the fittest metro in the US. It is also the most educated metro in the US. It has been shown that health and education correlate. The south is not as educated and has poorer health. This should be obvious, and denying it again is being willfully ignorant.

3. Great, blame Obama. Okay. Because 2009 is when West Virginia started going downward. I forgot. At current trends, WV will lose about 2% of the population from 2010 to 2020. The state lost 8% from 1980 to 1990 when Reagan and Bush were in office. Yet grew 11% from 1970 to 1980 when repub Ford and dem Carter were in office. WV's decline began in the 60's when Obama was an infant, so don't try to blame the administration.

WV has suffered for the same reasons that Chicago, Detroit, and Cleveland have suffered. And West Virginia is as red as it comes.

You try to nitpick and be contrarian on purpose. This is not a partisan problem and treating it as such helps nothing.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 03:39 PM
 
1,987 posts, read 1,237,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
It isn't for sure whether Dallas county is booming. If it is, it is disproportionately from the likely red suburbs within the county. There is a reason that the city of Dallas is sometimes call the hole in the economic donut.
That used to be the case, but not so much anymore.
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