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You're missing the point, I know Cincinnati are not demographic matches for Detroit. But what do they offer (other than white people, apparently?) that Detroit doesn't? What is the incentive for the OP to leave Detroit for them? Neither really meet any of his criteria other than being close to Detroit... both are some form of shrinking rust belt city. Does Cincinnati, even it's artsy areas, offer " larger city opportunities and certain cultural elements in a place that is more condensed and feels a bit more "comfortable" (perhaps a bit more like a "community" than the large cities)"? Not really. It'd be just like staying in Detroit and living in Ferndale.
My Ann Arbor comment was merely about how, had it not been bounded to the north and east by Detroit's suburbs, it probably would have more growth potential than it does. It was not about Ann Arbor's innate superiority, it was a way of comparing Madison's rise to a quarter of a million people to Ann Arbor's relatively stagnant growth. Being hemmed in by the Detroit MSA on two sides means that it hasn't been able to really develop the same way as other Big Ten boomtowns like Columbus, Minneapolis and Madison. Companies that might have HQed in Ann Arbor otherwise can be based in Novi or Plymouth and get the best of both worlds in terms of the Detroit areas workforce and A2's brainforce.
There are places the OP would enjoy within his metrics. I don't want to harp on Madison again (though I will reiterate that it has everything the OP needs), but I agree with everyone that he should give Grand Rapids a second look (it is nowhere near as conservative as the rest of western Michigan and may surprise him) and he should also look into Pittsburgh and Columbus for bigger cities that have a similar general vibe.
I think the point of usroute with Cincinnati and myself with Buffalo is to throw the stereotypes that you may have heard about both of those cities, as both appear to have areas that fit what the OP is looking for in spite of their reputations.
Ann Arbor/Washtenaw County(aka the MSA) has had population growth in recent years. So, that isn't an issue.
I still think people are sleeping on Lansing-East Lansing, which also has a Big Ten presence, with steady growth. It is literally an hour and a half from Downtown EL to Downtown Detroit. So, the OP could literally come home whenever they want to. It is more affordable than Ann Arbor, but still has a youthful vibe with a mix of people.
I think the point of usroute with Cincinnati and myself with Buffalo is to throw the stereotypes that you may have heard about both of those cities, as both appear to have areas that fit what the OP is looking for in spite of their reputations.
Ann Arbor/Washtenaw County(aka the MSA) has had population growth in recent years. So, that isn't an issue.
I still think people are sleeping on Lansing-East Lansing, which also has a Big Ten presence, with steady growth. It is literally an hour and a half from Downtown EL to Downtown Detroit. So, the OP could literally come home whenever they want to. It is more affordable than Ann Arbor, but still has a youthful vibe with a mix of people.
Thanks again for the suggestion! I think you made some really solid points about the young presence of Lansing/East Lansing that I hadn't considered before, but I would otherwise have a number of concerns about living there. Is the area really noteworthy in terms of "entertainment and career opportunities"? I acknowledge there's a solid bar scene there, and the state government employs a lot of people, but I would not have otherwise much considered Lansing/EL in terms of entertainment and career opportunities. It's also on the smaller end for a "mid-sized city" (under 200K people if you include Lansing and EL), and it's not piggybacking off a much larger metro area like with the Ann Arbor example -- I'm just a bit concerned in terms of overall opportunities in the area (the ideal would be "lots of diverse opportunities in general"). To further bring ideals into the picture, I also never really much got the vibe of "strong presence of arts and arts community/culture, intellectualism, eclecticism/diversity" when visiting Lansing/EL -- but I'm willing to concede that maybe I haven't done enough investigation there? Quite willing to concede that on any one of these concerns, actually -- let me know what I'm missing! FWIW, I can see even with those concerns how it would be a viable option, and it's definitely a valuable suggestion that I've now considered. Thanks again. :-)
Thanks again, and I agree that Grand Rapids is a better option in that specific respect. And I get what people are saying about the vibe there. I've been there a few times, and there was certainly a good presence of young professionals, and it certainly wasn't a bad vibe -- it just wasn't "my" vibe, if you know what I mean.
But yeah, in terms of prioritizing ease/cost of visits back to metro-Detroit, I will probably add Grand Rapids to my job search.
Also (in summary): I'll be sure to do some more research on Columbus, since so many have suggested that it surprisingly meets a lot of my ideals, and it is a convenient 5 hour bus ride. I may also add Minneapolis to my search, which I've been considering for a while anyways for a lot of these reasons, and flights seem to largely be on the cheaper end. Unfortunately flights seem to be on the more expensive end for Madison, but I'll be putting some serious consideration into that.
I'm also curious about Nashville based on other things I've heard, which was mentioned a couple times here without dispute -- and appears to have cheaper flights as well. There's also been a lot of individual or less disputed suggestions that seem to warrant more research or additional opinions: Indianapolis, Charlotte, Knoxville, Cleveland?
Happy to hear any more insight or suggestions. :-) I'll be sure to do some of my own research on a couple of the more disputed ones, as well.
Yeah that's kind of how I feel too. I like Grand Rapids but I couldn't live there, partially because I didn't like Kalamazoo too much when I moved there from Detroit.
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Thanks again for the suggestion! I think you made some really solid points about the young presence of Lansing/East Lansing that I hadn't considered before, but I would otherwise have a number of concerns about living there. Is the area really noteworthy in terms of "entertainment and career opportunities"? I acknowledge there's a solid bar scene there, and the state government employs a lot of people, but I would not have otherwise much considered Lansing/EL in terms of entertainment and career opportunities. It's also on the smaller end for a "mid-sized city" (under 200K people if you include Lansing and EL), and it's not piggybacking off a much larger metro area like with the Ann Arbor example -- I'm just a bit concerned in terms of overall opportunities in the area (the ideal would be "lots of diverse opportunities in general"). To further bring ideals into the picture, I also never really much got the vibe of "strong presence of arts and arts community/culture, intellectualism, eclecticism/diversity" when visiting Lansing/EL -- but I'm willing to concede that maybe I haven't done enough investigation there? Quite willing to concede that on any one of these concerns, actually -- let me know what I'm missing! FWIW, I can see even with those concerns how it would be a viable option, and it's definitely a valuable suggestion that I've now considered. Thanks again. :-)
Well when your a college age person like me and are into alot of parties and stuff... East Lansing is great, other than that... alot of people just head to Metro Detroit for that type of stuff. Don't get me wrong Lansing has it's own things to do depending on what your into. But you could get bored. Career wise there are a few good paying jobs there depending on your field.
Yeah that's kind of how I feel too. I like Grand Rapids but I couldn't live there, partially because I didn't like Kalamazoo too much when I moved there from Detroit.
I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Grand Rapids is 3x's the size of Kzoo.
Yeah that's kind of how I feel too. I like Grand Rapids but I couldn't live there, partially because I didn't like Kalamazoo too much when I moved there from Detroit.
Well when your a college age person like me and are into alot of parties and stuff... East Lansing is great, other than that... alot of people just head to Metro Detroit for that type of stuff. Don't get me wrong Lansing has it's own things to do depending on what your into. But you could get bored. Career wise there are a few good paying jobs there depending on your field.
Pretty much this and both Lansing and East Lansing(actually MSU) both have symphony orchestras. Broad Art Museum is on the MSU campus.
Old Town just north of Downtown Lansing is in an area close to where the Mexican community is concentrated in the city. REO Town is just south of Downtown, with both really coming along in recent years.
I'd say that it is a relatively integrated area in terms of seeing a decent degree of diversity in the cities and suburbs(Waverly area, Okemos, Holt, etc).
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 04-01-2017 at 11:10 AM..
Pretty much this and both Lansing and East Lansing(actually MSU) both have symphony orchestras. Broad Art Museum is on the MSU campus.
Old Town just north of Downtown Lansing is in an area close to where the Mexican community is concentrated in the city. REO Town is just south of Downtown, with both really coming along in recent years.
I'd say that it is a relatively integrated area in terms of seeing a decent degree of diversity in the cities and suburbs(Waverly area, Okemos, Holt, etc).
Thanks again. It seems like I'm looking for at least a bit more in every category than Lansing/EL has to offer (hopefully a good amount more in some), but it certainly wins out in terms of convenience for visits. I do find the link given surprising, and this is always something I pay attention to after reading about Richard Florida's gay-bohemian index.
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Originally Posted by creeksitter
Nashville is more expensive than other cities in the region, but I see you didn't mention price in your OP.
So you should definitely include it in a road trip.
Thanks, I've been there once and I liked it from what I could tell. Do you have any input on it in those other aspects? :-)
I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Grand Rapids is 3x's the size of Kzoo.
For sure, Grand Rapids blows Kalamazoo straight out of the water. Kalamazoo just made me never want to live in a smaller city since I spent so many years there. But if I do every decide to size down, I will probably look into GR.
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Pretty much this and both Lansing and East Lansing(actually MSU) both have symphony orchestras. Broad Art Museum is on the MSU campus.
Yeah MSU is great, there is always something going on at or near campus.
where basic quality of life factors are also met (e.g., entertainment and career opportunities, other young people, general feeling of safety).
Nashville ranks highly for entertainment (of course) and career opportunities. Young people are flocking there in droves. Will you feel safe there? that's up to you, isn't it? None of us control your feelings.
One would think after Detroit Nashville would feel like an oasis of tranquility, but if you are suffering from PTSD then you might see people who scare you.
Last edited by creeksitter; 04-01-2017 at 01:50 PM..
If your not counting Ann Arbor than I would do Grand Rapids or Cleveland.
I'm surprised that no one has offered up more information on the area. Besides some of the city neighborhoods, Lakewood, Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights are some suburban cities in the area that seem to fit what the OP is looking for.
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