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Old 04-17-2017, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,511 posts, read 2,968,854 times
Reputation: 2737

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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlane3 View Post
Even further - since I think the Census definition of metropolitan DC area even includes Frederick County MD, which touches the Pennsylvania border near Emmitsburg......and Loudoun County VA, which extends west to Harpers Ferry. I can't possibly imagine Salisbury being added - that's just wrong. No one from Salisbury commutes to Baltimore or Washington.
You're completely right. I went back and looked at the current DC/Baltimore CSA, and that includes Hampshire County, WV and Franklin County, PA. So even further than what I previously suggested and what you've brought up. Technically, if the Salisbury MSA was included, the DC/Baltimore metropolitan area would stretch from Romney, WV to Assateague Island, a distance of 263 miles and a drive time of about 5 hours, at its shortest. As the Spanish would say, ridiculo!

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Assa...9!2d39.3420431
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,631 posts, read 8,315,973 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by g500 View Post
Thanks for the clarification, and yes I agree. Harrisburg + Lancaster + York already have a lot of overlap with each other as separate MSA's. There are lots of planned infrastructure improvements including the total reconstruction of PA-283 between Harrisburg past Middletown, starting now through 2020.
Yes, exactly.

Honestly the infrastructure planning is needed for the area. Harrisburg is actually Pennsylvania's fastest growing PCSA now in both percentages and in raw numbers and it will continue to accumulate the state's top growth prospects with regard to population because it has the demographical tools (age), the industry (government), and the tangibles (affordability and location) to do so. It is increasingly going to become a bigger proportion of the Pennsylvanian pie in future years and is one of the few places in the state seeing decent growth.

A lot of the state's future is going into Harrisburg;

PCSAs, 2015 to 2016 Population Growth:
- Greater Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): + 148,413
- Greater Houston (CSA): + 126,610
- Greater Atlanta (CSA): + 99,328
- Greater Los Angeles (CSA): + 96,038
- Greater Phoenix (MSA): + 93,680
- Greater Seattle CSA: + 88,412
- Greater Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): + 80,433
- Greater Orlando (CSA): + 78,535
- Greater San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): + 66,230
- Greater Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): + 63,678
- Greater Tampa (MSA): + 61,085
- Greater Austin (MSA): + 58,301
- Greater Denver (CSA): + 57,628
- Greater Portland (CSA): + 54,211
- Greater Salt Lake City (CSA): + 50,929
- Greater Charlotte (CSA): + 50,096
- Greater San Antonio (MSA): + 47,906
- Greater Las Vegas (CSA): + 47,796
- Greater Raleigh/Durham (CSA): + 43,173
- Greater Nashville (CSA): + 37,828
- Greater Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): + 34,253
- Greater Boston (CSA): + 33,657
- Greater New York (CSA): + 33,098
- Greater Jacksonville (CSA): + 31,028
- Greater Sacramento (CSA): + 30,757
- Greater Cape Coral/Naples (CSA): + 30,617
- Greater San Diego (MSA): + 27,504
- Greater North Port/Sarasota (CSA): + 26,160
- Greater Kansas City (CSA): + 21,467
- Greater Columbus (CSA): + 20,323
- Greater Indianapolis (CSA): + 17,319
- Greater Greenville (CSA): + 16,913
- Greater Oklahoma City (CSA): + 16,704
- Greater Richmond (MSA): + 11,294
- Greater Grand Rapids (CSA): + 10,548
- Greater Greensboro/Winston-Salem (CSA): + 9,992
- Greater Cincinnati (CSA): + 9,910
- Greater Knoxville (CSA): + 9,130
- Greater New Orleans (CSA): + 8,901
- Greater Fresno (CSA): + 8,176
- Greater Tucson (CSA): + 7,849
- Greater Louisville (CSA): + 7,248
- Greater Tulsa (CSA): + 6,901
- Greater Albuquerque (CSA): + 6,614
- Greater Harrisburg (CSA): + 6,603
- Greater Philadelphia (CSA): + 5,767

- Greater El Paso (CSA): + 5,403
- Greater Virginia Beach/Norfolk (CSA): + 4,073
- Greater Birmingham (CSA): + 2,393
- Greater Detroit (CSA): + 1,943
- Greater Memphis (CSA): + 506
- Greater Albany (CSA): -410
- Greater Dayton (CSA): -1,013
- Greater Saint Louis (CSA): -1,385
- Greater Milwaukee (CSA): -1,791
- Greater Rochester (CSA): -2,800
- Greater Buffalo (CSA): -2,907
- Greater Hartford (CSA): -3,955
- Greater Cleveland (CSA): -7,714
- Greater Pittsburgh (CSA): -11,575
- Greater Chicago (CSA): -21,903
- Greater San Juan (CSA): -42,884

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2...cal-areas.html

I've viewed Pennsylvania as a state with a "Big 3" and to me a major city is a place where it is able to get to a population of over 1 million people in its metropolitan area (MSA) and/or expanded metropolitan regions (CSAs). Harrisburg qualifies on my watch. Pennsylvania is a state with three major cities, three metropolises with more than 1 million inhabitants. That's not bad.
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,511 posts, read 2,968,854 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
Yes, exactly.

Honestly the infrastructure planning is needed for the area. Harrisburg is actually Pennsylvania's fastest growing PCSA now in both percentages and in raw numbers and it will continue to accumulate the state's top growth prospects with regard to population because it has the demographical tools (age), the industry (government), and the tangibles (affordability and location) to do so. It is increasingly going to become a bigger proportion of the Pennsylvanian pie in future years and is one of the few places in the state seeing decent growth.

A lot of the state's future is going into Harrisburg;

PCSAs, 2015 to 2016 Population Growth:
- Greater Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): + 148,413
- Greater Houston (CSA): + 126,610
- Greater Atlanta (CSA): + 99,328
- Greater Los Angeles (CSA): + 96,038
- Greater Phoenix (MSA): + 93,680
- Greater Seattle CSA: + 88,412
- Greater Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): + 80,433
- Greater Orlando (CSA): + 78,535
- Greater San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): + 66,230
- Greater Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): + 63,678
- Greater Tampa (MSA): + 61,085
- Greater Austin (MSA): + 58,301
- Greater Denver (CSA): + 57,628
- Greater Portland (CSA): + 54,211
- Greater Salt Lake City (CSA): + 50,929
- Greater Charlotte (CSA): + 50,096
- Greater San Antonio (MSA): + 47,906
- Greater Las Vegas (CSA): + 47,796
- Greater Raleigh/Durham (CSA): + 43,173
- Greater Nashville (CSA): + 37,828
- Greater Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): + 34,253
- Greater Boston (CSA): + 33,657
- Greater New York (CSA): + 33,098
- Greater Jacksonville (CSA): + 31,028
- Greater Sacramento (CSA): + 30,757
- Greater Cape Coral/Naples (CSA): + 30,617
- Greater San Diego (MSA): + 27,504
- Greater North Port/Sarasota (CSA): + 26,160
- Greater Kansas City (CSA): + 21,467
- Greater Columbus (CSA): + 20,323
- Greater Indianapolis (CSA): + 17,319
- Greater Greenville (CSA): + 16,913
- Greater Oklahoma City (CSA): + 16,704
- Greater Richmond (MSA): + 11,294
- Greater Grand Rapids (CSA): + 10,548
- Greater Greensboro/Winston-Salem (CSA): + 9,992
- Greater Cincinnati (CSA): + 9,910
- Greater Knoxville (CSA): + 9,130
- Greater New Orleans (CSA): + 8,901
- Greater Fresno (CSA): + 8,176
- Greater Tucson (CSA): + 7,849
- Greater Louisville (CSA): + 7,248
- Greater Tulsa (CSA): + 6,901
- Greater Albuquerque (CSA): + 6,614
- Greater Harrisburg (CSA): + 6,603
- Greater Philadelphia (CSA): + 5,767

- Greater El Paso (CSA): + 5,403
- Greater Virginia Beach/Norfolk (CSA): + 4,073
- Greater Birmingham (CSA): + 2,393
- Greater Detroit (CSA): + 1,943
- Greater Memphis (CSA): + 506
- Greater Albany (CSA): -410
- Greater Dayton (CSA): -1,013
- Greater Saint Louis (CSA): -1,385
- Greater Milwaukee (CSA): -1,791
- Greater Rochester (CSA): -2,800
- Greater Buffalo (CSA): -2,907
- Greater Hartford (CSA): -3,955
- Greater Cleveland (CSA): -7,714
- Greater Pittsburgh (CSA): -11,575
- Greater Chicago (CSA): -21,903
- Greater San Juan (CSA): -42,884

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2...cal-areas.html

I've viewed Pennsylvania as a state with a "Big 3" and to me a major city is a place where it is able to get to a population of over 1 million people in its metropolitan area (MSA) and/or expanded metropolitan regions (CSAs). Harrisburg qualifies on my watch. Pennsylvania is a state with three major cities, three metropolises with more than 1 million inhabitants. That's not bad.
Pennsylvania is actually a state with a "Big 4", as Allentown's metropolitan area (Carbon, Lehigh, Northampton, Warren, Pike and Monroe counties) cracks the 1 million mark. It's also growing at a rate just behind Harrisburg/Lancaster (.3 percent from 2015-2016, behind Lancaster's .4 percent and Harrisburg's .5 percent). The only thing is is that Allentown is technically a part of the NYC CSA, but for all intents and purposes, not to open a can of worms, it belongs to Pennsylvania.

Last edited by qworldorder; 04-17-2017 at 03:00 PM..
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Old 04-17-2017, 03:10 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,217 posts, read 17,945,732 times
Reputation: 14655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
Lancaster, PA is still a singular metropolitan area. It is still independent (for now).

It is #100: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

Harrisburg will add Lancaster into its CSA in 2023, the way it added York, PA into its CSA in 2013. The commuting interflow is getting up there and by 2023 should probably be there. Harrisburg is on its way to being an area of 1.8 million people.
A lot of people don't realize just how populous eastern Pennsylvania is outside of Philadelphia.
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Old 04-17-2017, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
397 posts, read 270,040 times
Reputation: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
Yes, exactly.

Honestly the infrastructure planning is needed for the area. Harrisburg is actually Pennsylvania's fastest growing PCSA now in both percentages and in raw numbers and it will continue to accumulate the state's top growth prospects with regard to population because it has the demographical tools (age), the industry (government), and the tangibles (affordability and location) to do so. It is increasingly going to become a bigger proportion of the Pennsylvanian pie in future years and is one of the few places in the state seeing decent growth.

A lot of the state's future is going into Harrisburg;

PCSAs, 2015 to 2016 Population Growth:
- Greater Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): + 148,413
- Greater Houston (CSA): + 126,610
- Greater Atlanta (CSA): + 99,328
- Greater Los Angeles (CSA): + 96,038
- Greater Phoenix (MSA): + 93,680
- Greater Seattle CSA: + 88,412
- Greater Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): + 80,433
- Greater Orlando (CSA): + 78,535
- Greater San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): + 66,230
- Greater Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): + 63,678
- Greater Tampa (MSA): + 61,085
- Greater Austin (MSA): + 58,301
- Greater Denver (CSA): + 57,628
- Greater Portland (CSA): + 54,211
- Greater Salt Lake City (CSA): + 50,929
- Greater Charlotte (CSA): + 50,096
- Greater San Antonio (MSA): + 47,906
- Greater Las Vegas (CSA): + 47,796
- Greater Raleigh/Durham (CSA): + 43,173
- Greater Nashville (CSA): + 37,828
- Greater Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): + 34,253
- Greater Boston (CSA): + 33,657
- Greater New York (CSA): + 33,098
- Greater Jacksonville (CSA): + 31,028
- Greater Sacramento (CSA): + 30,757
- Greater Cape Coral/Naples (CSA): + 30,617
- Greater San Diego (MSA): + 27,504
- Greater North Port/Sarasota (CSA): + 26,160
- Greater Kansas City (CSA): + 21,467
- Greater Columbus (CSA): + 20,323
- Greater Indianapolis (CSA): + 17,319
- Greater Greenville (CSA): + 16,913
- Greater Oklahoma City (CSA): + 16,704
- Greater Richmond (MSA): + 11,294
- Greater Grand Rapids (CSA): + 10,548
- Greater Greensboro/Winston-Salem (CSA): + 9,992
- Greater Cincinnati (CSA): + 9,910
- Greater Knoxville (CSA): + 9,130
- Greater New Orleans (CSA): + 8,901
- Greater Fresno (CSA): + 8,176
- Greater Tucson (CSA): + 7,849
- Greater Louisville (CSA): + 7,248
- Greater Tulsa (CSA): + 6,901
- Greater Albuquerque (CSA): + 6,614
- Greater Harrisburg (CSA): + 6,603
- Greater Philadelphia (CSA): + 5,767

- Greater El Paso (CSA): + 5,403
- Greater Virginia Beach/Norfolk (CSA): + 4,073
- Greater Birmingham (CSA): + 2,393
- Greater Detroit (CSA): + 1,943
- Greater Memphis (CSA): + 506
- Greater Albany (CSA): -410
- Greater Dayton (CSA): -1,013
- Greater Saint Louis (CSA): -1,385
- Greater Milwaukee (CSA): -1,791
- Greater Rochester (CSA): -2,800
- Greater Buffalo (CSA): -2,907
- Greater Hartford (CSA): -3,955
- Greater Cleveland (CSA): -7,714
- Greater Pittsburgh (CSA): -11,575
- Greater Chicago (CSA): -21,903
- Greater San Juan (CSA): -42,884

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2...cal-areas.html

I've viewed Pennsylvania as a state with a "Big 3" and to me a major city is a place where it is able to get to a population of over 1 million people in its metropolitan area (MSA) and/or expanded metropolitan regions (CSAs). Harrisburg qualifies on my watch. Pennsylvania is a state with three major cities, three metropolises with more than 1 million inhabitants. That's not bad.
Facts, you are spot on. Harrisburg has a lot of relevance as a metropolitan area. Being the PA state capital, having major interstates and railways, having proximity to major metropolitan areas, and having a decent cost of living will always make it relevant for the future. On paper it seems small, but the surrounding adjacent townships are ten times larger than the city proper. Harrisburg added Carlise to its urban area in 2010. Lebanon, York, and Lancaster are not too far off either.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
143 posts, read 129,253 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
I think the only two real sense makers for the CSA metric are DC-Baltimore, and SF-SJ-Oakland simply because there are not other examples of them in the country nor the rest of North America.
You forgot about the Boston CSA.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Lebanon, OH
5,884 posts, read 6,317,985 times
Reputation: 12526
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
If any of these get aligned as CSA in 2023 I vote to ban the metric from being able to be used for comparisons.


Baltimore and Washington are not even 40 miles from core to core so that makes some sense. CSA's will be completely useless when you have two cores 90 miles apart being joined for statistical purposes. Even with cross commuting at a 15% threshold.


I'm trying not to cringe at homers using this metric to bolster a size argument over cities that are clearly larger.
The homers on this forum are the worst exaggerators ever, claiming things 50 miles away to give their bush league cities more cred.

Combining Cincinnati and Dayton makes no sense, culturally they might as well be in two different parts of the country, Dayton and Springfield would make more sense. Dayton and Cincinnati are 54 miles apart, Toledo is closer to Detroit and Providence RI is closer to Boston and San Jose is closer to San Fransisco.

The most objective metric would be the inset maps in the Rand McNally atlas, they don't include 8 counties of cornfields as being part of a "metro."
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:10 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,984 posts, read 3,450,579 times
Reputation: 2436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave120 View Post
You forgot about the Boston CSA.
You're correct, Boston CSA should also be considered legitimate.
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,506 posts, read 3,957,821 times
Reputation: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by woxyroxme View Post
The homers on this forum are the worst exaggerators ever, claiming things 50 miles away to give their bush league cities more cred.

Combining Cincinnati and Dayton makes no sense, culturally they might as well be in two different parts of the country, Dayton and Springfield would make more sense. Dayton and Cincinnati are 54 miles apart, Toledo is closer to Detroit and Providence RI is closer to Boston and San Jose is closer to San Fransisco.

The most objective metric would be the inset maps in the Rand McNally atlas, they don't include 8 counties of cornfields as being part of a "metro."
If one realizes that the haters on this forum are by far the worst exaggerators, commentary such as this can be put into proper perspective and turned back on itself.

A review of numerous past posts reveal that whenever "CIN-DAY" is mentioned, that a cadre of Cincinnati-bashers automatically shift into knee jerk overdrive in denial of its status as a city and importance within the emerging Cincinnati-Dayton CSA. They simply abhor the fact that Dayton will be aligned with a considerably larger, more prosperous and cultured city, even to the extent that some of them actually refer to the new alignment as "Daytonnati." How deluded and sad.

Speaking of miles of empty space, these same misguided contributors wish that everyone would believe that Springfield, OH is somehow more magically connected to Columbus than it is to the CIN-DAY corridor. In both nighttime satellite photos cited below, observe the light show stretching from Walton, KY to Tipp City, OH vs. the darkness of cornfields between Springfield and Columbus. Some connection.

The Earth at night – NASA Earth Observatory’s Black Marble images

Blue Marble Navigator - Night Lights 2012
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Northeast Suburbs of PITTSBURGH
3,718 posts, read 3,570,191 times
Reputation: 2331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
Yes, exactly.

Honestly the infrastructure planning is needed for the area. Harrisburg is actually Pennsylvania's fastest growing PCSA now in both percentages and in raw numbers and it will continue to accumulate the state's top growth prospects with regard to population because it has the demographical tools (age), the industry (government), and the tangibles (affordability and location) to do so. It is increasingly going to become a bigger proportion of the Pennsylvanian pie in future years and is one of the few places in the state seeing decent growth.

A lot of the state's future is going into Harrisburg;

PCSAs, 2015 to 2016 Population Growth:
- Greater Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex (CSA): + 148,413
- Greater Houston (CSA): + 126,610
- Greater Atlanta (CSA): + 99,328
- Greater Los Angeles (CSA): + 96,038
- Greater Phoenix (MSA): + 93,680
- Greater Seattle CSA: + 88,412
- Greater Miami/Fort Lauderdale (CSA): + 80,433
- Greater Orlando (CSA): + 78,535
- Greater San Francisco Bay Area (CSA): + 66,230
- Greater Washington DC-Baltimore (CSA): + 63,678
- Greater Tampa (MSA): + 61,085
- Greater Austin (MSA): + 58,301
- Greater Denver (CSA): + 57,628
- Greater Portland (CSA): + 54,211
- Greater Salt Lake City (CSA): + 50,929
- Greater Charlotte (CSA): + 50,096
- Greater San Antonio (MSA): + 47,906
- Greater Las Vegas (CSA): + 47,796
- Greater Raleigh/Durham (CSA): + 43,173
- Greater Nashville (CSA): + 37,828
- Greater Minneapolis/Saint Paul (CSA): + 34,253
- Greater Boston (CSA): + 33,657
- Greater New York (CSA): + 33,098
- Greater Jacksonville (CSA): + 31,028
- Greater Sacramento (CSA): + 30,757
- Greater Cape Coral/Naples (CSA): + 30,617
- Greater San Diego (MSA): + 27,504
- Greater North Port/Sarasota (CSA): + 26,160
- Greater Kansas City (CSA): + 21,467
- Greater Columbus (CSA): + 20,323
- Greater Indianapolis (CSA): + 17,319
- Greater Greenville (CSA): + 16,913
- Greater Oklahoma City (CSA): + 16,704
- Greater Richmond (MSA): + 11,294
- Greater Grand Rapids (CSA): + 10,548
- Greater Greensboro/Winston-Salem (CSA): + 9,992
- Greater Cincinnati (CSA): + 9,910
- Greater Knoxville (CSA): + 9,130
- Greater New Orleans (CSA): + 8,901
- Greater Fresno (CSA): + 8,176
- Greater Tucson (CSA): + 7,849
- Greater Louisville (CSA): + 7,248
- Greater Tulsa (CSA): + 6,901
- Greater Albuquerque (CSA): + 6,614
- Greater Harrisburg (CSA): + 6,603
- Greater Philadelphia (CSA): + 5,767

- Greater El Paso (CSA): + 5,403
- Greater Virginia Beach/Norfolk (CSA): + 4,073
- Greater Birmingham (CSA): + 2,393
- Greater Detroit (CSA): + 1,943
- Greater Memphis (CSA): + 506
- Greater Albany (CSA): -410
- Greater Dayton (CSA): -1,013
- Greater Saint Louis (CSA): -1,385
- Greater Milwaukee (CSA): -1,791
- Greater Rochester (CSA): -2,800
- Greater Buffalo (CSA): -2,907
- Greater Hartford (CSA): -3,955
- Greater Cleveland (CSA): -7,714
- Greater Pittsburgh (CSA): -11,575
- Greater Chicago (CSA): -21,903
- Greater San Juan (CSA): -42,884

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2...cal-areas.html

I've viewed Pennsylvania as a state with a "Big 3" and to me a major city is a place where it is able to get to a population of over 1 million people in its metropolitan area (MSA) and/or expanded metropolitan regions (CSAs). Harrisburg qualifies on my watch. Pennsylvania is a state with three major cities, three metropolises with more than 1 million inhabitants. That's not bad.
You didn't get a fair look at Pennsylvania then. It's Philadelphia
then Pittsburgh
..
..
..
Then the Lehigh Valley
..
Then Harrisburg.



It's not a big 3. It's a big 2 with a myriad of small cities below Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Harrisburgs UA population is just over 300k. That's miniscule to Pittsburgh's 1.8 million UA population or Philadelphia's 5.4 million. Allentown is the closest but still is way under a million at 640k.

Philadelphia is considerably larger than Pittsburgh but after that, Pennsylvania is just a few smaller cities that are close together.

Last edited by speagles84; 04-18-2017 at 06:04 AM..
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