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Old 04-28-2017, 11:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
Exactly my point. DC is very Northern in terms of today's cultural boundaries. Let's just look at the simplest things to start with like what license plates you see here and if sweet tea is offered at restaurants? Do you see chains here that exist more dominantly in Northern states or the south? Also, where does density numbers, housing costs, and average income salaries align with.... I don't disagree with the fact that the area has southern influences but it's definitely not "Southern".
So if a place becomes expensive, dense, and wealthy, it becomes Northern? DC may be northern influenced but it doesn't make it part of the North.
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Old 04-29-2017, 04:54 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,293 posts, read 1,645,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
Exactly my point. DC is very Northern in terms of today's cultural boundaries. Let's just look at the simplest things to start with like what license plates you see here and if sweet tea is offered at restaurants? Do you see chains here that exist more dominantly in Northern states or the south? Also, where does density numbers, housing costs, and average income salaries align with.... I don't disagree with the fact that the area has southern influences but it's definitely not "Southern".
DC is SOUTHERN:

https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/map.../us_regdiv.pdf

All you've mentioned is how it is dissimilar to the South. You didn't list anything about how it's similar to the northeast. Where are the Italians/Puerto Ricans/ Polish? Where are the NE accents? Where are the blue collar white voting blocks? Where is the heavy Catholic population? Where is the industrial look/feel? I could go on and on. People on CD only try to disprove how D.C. is dissimilar to the south (even though it's southern), yet can never explain how it's similar to the northeast. The Pacific Northwest and California are wealthy and democratic.....that's weak evidence for being northeastern.

DC is an awesome city that is SOUTHERN

https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/map.../us_regdiv.pdf
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:38 AM
 
2,501 posts, read 2,262,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
DC is SOUTHERN:

https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/map.../us_regdiv.pdf

All you've mentioned is how it is dissimilar to the South. You didn't list anything about how it's similar to the northeast. Where are the Italians/Puerto Ricans/ Polish? Where are the NE accents? Where are the blue collar white voting blocks? Where is the heavy Catholic population? Where is the industrial look/feel? I could go on and on. People on CD only try to disprove how D.C. is dissimilar to the south (even though it's southern), yet can never explain how it's similar to the northeast. The Pacific Northwest and California are wealthy and democratic.....that's weak evidence for being northeastern.

DC is an awesome city that is SOUTHERN

https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/map.../us_regdiv.pdf

"From what we're finding, D.C. and Virginia are not appearing very Southern at all these days," Knotts said of the survey, published last year.
That's about right, said Sharon Ash, a University of Pennsylvania linguist and co-author of the 2005 Atlas of North American English. A 1941 study placed the Washington area in the South for pronunciation purposes. But her atlas now draws that line about 45 miles north of Richmond, which was the capital of the Confederacy.
D.C. area and Dixie drifting farther and farther apart

This article goes deeper into using traits of North and South to the dividing line. I.e. sweet tea line
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...article/70052/

While there is a strong historic argument for the D.C.’s historic association with the American South, in recent years an influx of northerners to the District has lent a more Northern cultural flavor to the area, especially in the the area of dialect.
http://is_dc_more_southern_or_northe...y_offer_a_clue

Not scientific but goes to the show what people think. They ask "Southerners" living in DC for this survey and not locals because they aren't considered Southern.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thr...n-dc-soul-food

Stole this one from another thread-
This data has been posted before, but it is the result of 14 twice-yearly Southern Focus Polls from 1992 - 1999, out of the Institute for Research in Social Science at the U. of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (noted sociologist and "southernologist" John Shelton Reed was in charge of the project. Only 12% of DC residents identify themselves as Southern.


According to the census DC is Southern, I dont deny that but culturally it is not "Southern". I never said it was fully Northern either but I think it is more heavily influenced by the North resulting what is today's DC.

Last edited by Ebck120; 04-29-2017 at 10:08 AM..
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,729,281 times
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I don't really like to consider DC itself to be either northern or southern. It's a special tiny portion of the country that is meant to represent the entire country. It is the capital, the heart of the nervous system. People from every state live and work in DC.

I think it's unfair to not consider DC its own creature.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:10 PM
 
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This question, now that I think about it, is pretty bad. I would say a lot of people don't consider all of the states in the question southern. All four are border states that lean one way or the other but aren't definitive.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fivenine View Post
When I consider something Southern, I like to see most of the following bulleted points checked.

- Scotish-Irish, English, or African (in the case of the Deep South) heritage being predominant
- Humid subtropical climate
- Part of the Bible Belt
- Coal, tobacco, or cotton being a major part of a communities story.
- Southern dialect from the non-transplants
- A Confederate State or a Border State during the Civil War
- Plant hardness zone of 7 or greater
- Southern cuisine (e.g. fried foods, hushpuppies, coleslaw, okra, black-eyed peas are very common)


I would be careful that you are not confusing rural with Southern. A lot of rural traits (e.g. conservative, everyone knows everyone, small town gossip, really resistant to change, etc.) are more rural and not specifically Southern.


When I look at my list I would agree that MD and most of DE is Mid-Atlantic with influences from both North and South. The southern portions of DE are probably the most Southern according to my list.
How so?
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:48 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
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I still don't get how, and why people don't want their state grouped with the most diverse region in the country.
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Old 04-29-2017, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
I still don't get how, and why people don't want their state grouped with the most diverse region in the country.
I really don't think it is.

The west is more diverse than the south even with your additional states.
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Old 04-29-2017, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
I still don't get how, and why people don't want their state grouped with the most diverse region in the country.
It's only possibly the most diverse since it's so huge. South Florida, Atlanta and Houston don't have much in common. Compare that with the West and especially the Northeast, which have more uniformity in culture and demographics. Plus, the South is unquestionably home to the poorest and most regressive states. Add in the whole Civil War factor and it's not so hard to understand.
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Old 04-29-2017, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
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From my observations:

Kentucky - southern, although there is some crossover with Midwestern traits if you're not further south than 20 miles south of I-64.

West Virginia - generally southern, although inclusive and north of Charleston and Huntington, it has some general Appalachian traits, and somewhat of an industrial heritage that seems much more common to the Rust Belt than the South.

Missouri - generally Midwestern if you're inclusive and north of St. Louis-Kansas City-Columbia. The southern part of the state may be Southern. The northern part of the state is conservative, but in a more Midwestern fashion. Kansas City seemed very general American to me and not strongly northern or southern.

Delaware - more southern than Pennsylvania, but generally northern, except possibly in the southern part of the state. I haven't really been to much of Delaware, so I don't really know, but the people that I met from there seemed to be more comfortable in a mid-Atlantic framework.

Maryland - the part of Maryland I've been to seems like a no-man's land between the Northeast and the South. Baltimore seemed relatively general American to me. I've never officially been to Washington D.C., but it just seems more busy than part of a distinctive region.
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