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Old 04-29-2017, 05:00 PM
 
2,501 posts, read 2,262,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
I still don't get how, and why people don't want their state grouped with the most diverse region in the country.
I'm curious what mean the most diverse? How So.. racially?

Again glossing over all the negatives.... why would the "most diverse" be enough reason to want to be grouped with the poorest and least progressive region...

Last edited by Ebck120; 04-29-2017 at 05:32 PM..
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:16 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,980 posts, read 102,527,356 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Kansas City has Confederate memorials, so I think that blows up your arguement.
Not really. Missouri is one of the states under consideration here. MO was a slave-holding border state during the Civil War.
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Old 04-30-2017, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Denver
14,151 posts, read 19,745,723 times
Reputation: 8803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Not really. Missouri is one of the states under consideration here. MO was a slave-holding border state during the Civil War.
Kansas City is definitely not a city that's considered southern in any sense as far as I know.
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:51 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,980 posts, read 102,527,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
Kansas City is definitely not a city that's considered southern in any sense as far as I know.
Some of the people I know from Kansas City, especially older ones, have mildly southern accents.
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Old 04-30-2017, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,729,281 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Some of the people I know from Kansas City, especially older ones, have mildly southern accents.
They sound southern compared to northern accents, but not compared to actual southern ones.

Kansas has that strong midlandish rural accent that is almost more traditionally western than southern.
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Old 04-30-2017, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,151 posts, read 19,745,723 times
Reputation: 8803
Something like Larry the Cable Guy?
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,729,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
Something like Larry the Cable Guy?
haha No. His accent is fake anyhow.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,205 posts, read 2,822,069 times
Reputation: 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
I posted some old videos of how Baltimore looked and felt before people started considering it non southern. The videos are from the 60s and 70s

https://youtu.be/EEJLhcfaT4A

https://youtu.be/gUITnovx4LI


https://youtu.be/7Sz3zfOl2s4
Those were definitely mildly southern accents in the last two videos....they aren't northern accents...

.............

The problem is that people still feel they have to define regions with hard borders along state lines, and that just doesn't reflect reality. As I've intimated before, the Mid-Atlantic, like Appalachia, is a subregion of the East Coast that stretches across both the Northeast and the Upper South Atlantic...Hampton Roads, which is southern, is the southern terminus of the Mid-Atlantic, which also includes Greater Richmond and Northern Virginia and possibly the Charlottesville/Shenandoah area, but the rest of VA outside those regions are not Mid-Atlantic, they are strictly southern. Virginia is an example of many other states, being extraordinarily fluid culturally. Growing up in Richmond is a different experience than growing up in Roanoke...

West Virginia is mostly southern, not at all Mid-Atlantic, mostly Appalachian, and somewhat Northern/Midwestern in its northernmost counties. Again, like Virginia, it is innacurate to put the entire state in one box. It is definitely innacurate to say it isn't southern to some degree...

Growing up, I always felt Pennsylvania was where "going up north" began. Going to Maryland wasn't "going up north", we were just going to Maryland, but I guess my perspective is reflective of where I grew up. Maryland is not completely anything and is probably more northern culturally than southern, but certainly carries some southern influences even to today. Certainly more than PA, though I'd say less than VA. On VA, though, over 70% of The Commonwealth lives in NoVa, Central VA, and HRVA. The bulk of the population of those areas are mostly Mid-Atlantic, which means the majority if the state is a mish-mash of North and South--though a little more southern than northern, which is opposite of Maryland which is a little more northern than southern. The rest of VA is undeniably southern and is culturally distant from the ~72% of the state that lives in the Big 3...

I'm of the belief that the people who focus on old-school definitions and insist on hard state boundaries to define these regions, have never spent measurable enough time in these places to get a realistic feel of the areas!

Last edited by murksiderock; 05-01-2017 at 06:05 AM..
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Old 05-01-2017, 08:23 AM
 
29,873 posts, read 27,324,185 times
Reputation: 18426
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Those were definitely mildly southern accents in the last two videos....they aren't northern accents...

.............

The problem is that people still feel they have to define regions with hard borders along state lines, and that just doesn't reflect reality. As I've intimated before, the Mid-Atlantic, like Appalachia, is a subregion of the East Coast that stretches across both the Northeast and the Upper South Atlantic...Hampton Roads, which is southern, is the southern terminus of the Mid-Atlantic, which also includes Greater Richmond and Northern Virginia and possibly the Charlottesville/Shenandoah area, but the rest of VA outside those regions are not Mid-Atlantic, they are strictly southern. Virginia is an example of many other states, being extraordinarily fluid culturally. Growing up in Richmond is a different experience than growing up in Roanoke...

West Virginia is mostly southern, not at all Mid-Atlantic, mostly Appalachian, and somewhat Northern/Midwestern in its northernmost counties. Again, like Virginia, it is innacurate to put the entire state in one box. It is definitely innacurate to say it isn't southern to some degree...

Growing up, I always felt Pennsylvania was where "going up north" began. Going to Maryland wasn't "going up north", we were just going to Maryland, but I guess my perspective is reflective of where I grew up. Maryland is not completely anything and is probably more northern culturally than southern, but certainly carries some southern influences even to today. Certainly more than PA, though I'd say less than VA. On VA, though, over 70% of The Commonwealth lives in NoVa, Central VA, and HRVA. The bulk of the population of those areas are mostly Mid-Atlantic, which means the majority if the state is a mish-mash of North and South--though a little more southern than northern, which is opposite of Maryland which is a little more northern than southern. The rest of VA is undeniably southern and is culturally distant from the ~72% of the state that lives in the Big 3...

I'm of the belief that the people who focus on old-school definitions and insist on hard state boundaries to define these regions, have never spent measurable enough time in these places to get a realistic feel of the areas!
Very solid post.
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Old 05-01-2017, 04:56 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,130 posts, read 9,898,127 times
Reputation: 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Those were definitely mildly southern accents in the last two videos....they aren't northern accents...

.............

The problem is that people still feel they have to define regions with hard borders along state lines, and that just doesn't reflect reality. As I've intimated before, the Mid-Atlantic, like Appalachia, is a subregion of the East Coast that stretches across both the Northeast and the Upper South Atlantic...Hampton Roads, which is southern, is the southern terminus of the Mid-Atlantic, which also includes Greater Richmond and Northern Virginia and possibly the Charlottesville/Shenandoah area, but the rest of VA outside those regions are not Mid-Atlantic, they are strictly southern. Virginia is an example of many other states, being extraordinarily fluid culturally. Growing up in Richmond is a different experience than growing up in Roanoke...

West Virginia is mostly southern, not at all Mid-Atlantic, mostly Appalachian, and somewhat Northern/Midwestern in its northernmost counties. Again, like Virginia, it is innacurate to put the entire state in one box. It is definitely innacurate to say it isn't southern to some degree...
I agree with the bolded that the Mid-Atlantic is a subregion that includes parts of the Northeast and the South. I have found numerous historic maps that show all the states from New York down to Virginia and including West Virginia as part of the Mid-Atlantic. For example the Warner Beers Map of 1875, the Warren Map of 1879 and the 1897 map found in the Wikipedia article of the Mid-Atlantic.

What I found recently is a map from 1758 that shows Virginia and Maryland as part of the Middle colonies. While this is not the usual way of looking at colonial Virginia and Maryland, it does show that there was a growing relationship between the Upper South and the Northeast even 250 years ago.

American Shores - Maps of the Middle Atlantic Region to 1850

Where I don't agree with you is that somehow the Mid-Atlantic does not include entire states. I get the impression from your description of Virginia areas that to you, the Mid-Atlantic has something to do with built up areas and does not include rural areas? But if so, that is your own private opinion and does not meet the historical record or even the US Government. The Mid-Atlantic has nothing to do with the Bos-Wash corridor or being right on the coast.
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