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I agree with both points. I do think that people paint with a broad brush when discussing the south as a whole. A lot of stereotypes.
Right! So it's their responsibility to change their views of the south, and not the south's responsibility to fit into their vision of what they think it should be. Truth be told, the south is far more culturally diverse than the northeast.
I believe that I can understand a lot of what KodeBlue is saying. Let us use Richmond as an example. People on this forum view Richmond as undoubtedly southern in the same way that they view Baltimore as undoubtedly Northern. I would bet that a lot of posters on this forum do not even realize how many similarities Richmond and Baltimore share.
Baltimore:
White alone, percent, April 1, 2010 (a)
29.6%
Black or African American alone, percent, April 1, 2010 (a)
63.7%
Hispanic or Latino, percent, April 1, 2010 (b)
4.2%
Foreign born persons, percent, 2011-2015
7.7%
Median household income (in 2015 dollars), 2011-2015
$42,241
Religious Organizations
29.9 per 10k
Gender
Male 47.1%, Female 52.9%
Median home construction year: 1943
Richmond:
White alone, percent, April 1, 2010 (a)
40.8%
Black or African American alone, percent, April 1, 2010 (a)
50.6%
Hispanic or Latino, percent, April 1, 2010 (b)
6.3%
Foreign born persons, percent, 2011-2015
6.8%
Median household income (in 2015 dollars), 2011-2015
$40,758
Religious Organizations
28.0 per 10k
Gender
Male 47.6%, Female 52.4%
Median home construction year: 1955
Both cities also share confederate monuments as well as Edgar Allen Poe and an industrial past. Now for a little anecdotal evidence... If you have spent real time with older people from either city you can get a feel for the similarities in both culture and accent. I have family in both cities and aside from my Baltimore family viewing Richmond as tiny, there is undoubtedly a feeling of similarity that is hard to explain. There are even housing similarities once you get outside of the mass produced row home areas in Baltimore. I think that because of the prevalence of Row homes that Baltimore gets linked in with Philly but again, if you have spent a lot of time in these areas then you know that Baltimore and Philly 'feel' nothing alike culturally. I think that the real question is how can two cities 3 hours away from each other really be undoubtedly polar opposites? If Richmond is unquestionably the south, then it shouldn't be so difficult to even consider some of Baltimore's southern traits.
While Richmond is more similar to The District, I've for years on here spoken of some of the subtle similarities between Rich and Bmore. Are they that similar? I don't know, but they aren't that different, either. They are separated by fewer than 150 miles downtown-to-downtown with several common links. To call one entirely southern or northern, but not the other, is a flawed and biased perception, but one that has been perpetuated on this board for years. I know exactly what you mean about older people in both (many people here have relatives there, and vice versa). But this is a generally fruitless argument on this board, one I'm sure I haven't even brought up in at least two years...
But you aren't wrong...
That said:
Baltimore's proximity to Philly; the fact that it's the epicenter of the Mid-Atlantic, and firmly in the BosWash corridor meaning it's more connected to Northeast locales; and Richmond sitting outside of (or more accurately in current-day) or at the southern terminus of BosWash...Baltimore does feel more Northern influenced than Richmond. I think it has cultural similarities to Philly obviously, though I'm not sure I'd go so far to say that it's too much "like" Philly. Baltimore doesn't feel like a traditional Northeast city, which I typically associate with New England, New York (city and state), and most of Pennsylvania and Jersey. It does feel like a city with elements of Northern culture, though...
Richmond feels a little more southern than Baltimore but not a single person could honestly tell anyone it feels like a typical Southern city. Richmond is obviously smaller but loaded to the hilts with history and culture, and is every bit as unique as Baltimore. There isn't a twin city of Richmond anywhere in Virginia (the closest would be Petersburg, though), much less anywhere else in the South. Richmond has elements of Southern culture, as well as elements of Northern culture, just like guess who? Charm City. Two cities separated by less than 150 miles that gave had cultural exchange for hundreds of years--even if the exchange with each other is less than they both have with other places--its completely off base to call either "completely" anything....
And nobody I know from either looks at each other with that type of reference. Nobody in Richmond views going to Baltimore as going "up north". Likewise, and you know like I do there are people around here from Baltimore and/or with Baltimore ties, nobody I've ever met from Baltimore viewed going to Richmond as going "down south"...theyre less than 150 miles apart, they're in the same friggin region...
Richmond and Baltimore can have completely different cultures, and still could be considered completely southern. As I said before, aside from being southern, and having rowhouses Richmond and Baltimore aren't really similar. You will not find city that is overwhelmingly similar to Baltimore, and that goes for DC, Philly and Richmond.
Richmond and Baltimore can have completely different cultures, and still could be considered completely southern. As I said before, aside from being southern, and having rowhouses Richmond and Baltimore aren't really similar. You will not find city that is overwhelmingly similar to Baltimore, and that goes for DC, Philly and Richmond.
Right, but that isn't what I said. You're taking something I didn't say, out of what I did say...
Right, but that isn't what I said. You're taking something I didn't say, out of what I did say...
These were the points that I was responding to.
"It does feel like a city with elements of Northern culture, though..."
"Richmond feels a little more southern than Baltimore but not a single person could honestly tell anyone it feels like a typical Southern city."
"Baltimore doesn't feel like a traditional Northeast city, which I typically associate with New England, New York (city and state), and most of Pennsylvania and Jersey."
"its completely off base to call either "completely" anything...."
"It does feel like a city with elements of Northern culture, though..."
It does...
"Richmond feels a little more southern than Baltimore but not a single person could honestly tell anyone it feels like a typical Southern city."
It does feel more southern than Baltimore but not nearly as southern as almost the entirety of the rest of the South...
"Baltimore doesn't feel like a traditional Northeast city, which I typically associate with New England, New York (city and state), and most of Pennsylvania and Jersey."
Baltimore doesn't...
"its completely off base to call either "completely" anything...."
It is...
At this point, I accept that you're toying with the forum. You know that Baltimore, from a cultural standpoint, isn't a full embodiment of the South. Some people would say that it hardly embodies the South at all, or doesn't completely. I won't go that far, but this thing where you convinced yourself and are trying to convince the board that Baltimore is entirely of the South is more a game than something I think you truly believe...
At this point, I accept that you're toying with the forum. You know that Baltimore, from a cultural standpoint, isn't a full embodiment of the South. Some people would say that it hardly embodies the South at all, or doesn't completely. I won't go that far, but this thing where you convinced yourself and are trying to convince the board that Baltimore is entirely of the South is more a game than something I think you truly believe...
Yet I've given you a comprehensive breakdown of why I think Baltimore is southern. Everyone else is stating their opinion without much detail. How isn't Baltimore an embodiment of the south? What has changed, when did it change, and how as it changed? I've already broken down how I think Baltimore stayed the same as it was when it was, without a doubt, a southern city. If you have any questions for me, by all means ask away.
At this point, I accept that you're toying with the forum. You know that Baltimore, from a cultural standpoint, isn't a full embodiment of the South. Some people would say that it hardly embodies the South at all, or doesn't completely. I won't go that far, but this thing where you convinced yourself and are trying to convince the board that Baltimore is entirely of the South is more a game than something I think you truly believe...
I concur
His posts often use rhetoric that is simultaneously befuddling, provoking, and occasionally just wrong.
For example, the oft-repeated claim that Baltimore is a "quintessential" southern city.
Quote:
Like I've been saying, Baltimore is one of the most southern cities
The definition of quintessential?
"Representing the most perfect or typical example of a quality or class". A quintessential southern city would be a place like Atlanta, or Charlotte, or Birmingham. Baltimore is nowhere near the top of that list.
Or even better, the elevating of the south at the expense of the northeast, often referring to it as "backwards"(!?) and as the red-headed stepchild of the nation:
Quote:
The more you think about it, the more it starts to sound like northerners have an outdated view to go along with their parochial views. That's possibly why the Northeast seems to have fallen of the wagon.
Quote:
Baltimore is nothing like Philly, nor should it want to be...I also stated that the south is the most prosperous region in the country, yet people want to be like a region that isn't performing as well.
Quote:
Also, the south isn't trying to be like the Northeast, as I've stated before, the northeast isn't anything special. The south is trouncing the Northeast with the amount of growth that its cities are seeing. In 2017, being called northeastern should be seen as an insult.
Quote:
Truth be told, the south is far more culturally diverse than the northeast.
And that's in this thread alone!
I mean, hey, if you truly do believe what you say, that's fine. Just don't share it with others in such an obnoxious way.
It's whatever. The moderators will probably either lock this thread or delete the majority of replies within, and rightfully so; This subject has been beaten to death on this forum.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,543,919 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5
Well they go muddin' in West Virginia. Missouri does not strike me as that kind of place.
People do that everywhere. I never understood why muddin'/off-roading was considered southern. Hell even winter doesn't stop people up here! They just switch to snow-mobiles and jump snowbanks over roads.
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