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Old 05-04-2017, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,775 posts, read 1,773,768 times
Reputation: 3479

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Yup, like many others - came here to say Detroit.

I will admit I don't know Chicago well, but never in my life have I experienced a place as segregated as Detroit. Not just by race, but by income as well. You've got middle-class Southfield which is 70% black bordering professional class Berkley and Royal Oak which are 90% white. Royal Oak borders Warren (..sort of), which is mostly working class whites. Each one of these has their own Meijer, their own Kroger, their own Target (well, technically Royal Oak's Target is in Troy, but right on the border) and then you go south of 8 Mile (into Detroit) and you're in an entirely different world. Well, until you get to Midtown, which is just a big playground for upper-middle class families and their college aged kids, but do any of them ever visit the soda shop on 6 Mile or the chicken place in Highland Park? Hahah, no. Even I will admit the only place I've been in Highland Park is on Woodward and that small part of the Davison Freeway that surfaces.

Oh, but that's not all! All the wealthy west-side suburbs behave the same way as their northern counterparts, even Downriver is its own little enclave, and the Grosse Pointes? The rich/poor polarization you see along Mack is straight out of a dystopian novel. Then you have Hamtramck and Dearborn which are quickly self-segregating into middle-eastern populations, and let's not forget Inkster, a tiiiny suburban wasteland, arguably more violent than Detroit, which many of us like to pretend isn't real because if we don't think about it, it don't exist, right? And it can be easily avoided while visiting family in the more upscale areas out that way like Canton and Livonia.

The polarization and segregation in Metro Detroit is far and away the biggest issue facing the region. If populations here assimilated I can almost assure you the crime in the city would disappear nearly overnight as the influence of the safer, and mostly upscale, suburbs would have an instant impact on the impoverished regions of the Detroit 'hoods creating opportunity for so many where before many had no idea what kinds of opportunities are available.
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:19 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,813,738 times
Reputation: 11136
This applies to practically EVERY large city and their metros.
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Denver
14,151 posts, read 19,774,924 times
Reputation: 8804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
Yup, like many others - came here to say Detroit.

I will admit I don't know Chicago well, but never in my life have I experienced a place as segregated as Detroit. Not just by race, but by income as well. You've got middle-class Southfield which is 70% black bordering professional class Berkley and Royal Oak which are 90% white. Royal Oak borders Warren (..sort of), which is mostly working class whites. Each one of these has their own Meijer, their own Kroger, their own Target (well, technically Royal Oak's Target is in Troy, but right on the border) and then you go south of 8 Mile (into Detroit) and you're in an entirely different world. Well, until you get to Midtown, which is just a big playground for upper-middle class families and their college aged kids, but do any of them ever visit the soda shop on 6 Mile or the chicken place in Highland Park? Hahah, no. Even I will admit the only place I've been in Highland Park is on Woodward and that small part of the Davison Freeway that surfaces.

Oh, but that's not all! All the wealthy west-side suburbs behave the same way as their northern counterparts, even Downriver is its own little enclave, and the Grosse Pointes? The rich/poor polarization you see along Mack is straight out of a dystopian novel. Then you have Hamtramck and Dearborn which are quickly self-segregating into middle-eastern populations, and let's not forget Inkster, a tiiiny suburban wasteland, arguably more violent than Detroit, which many of us like to pretend isn't real because if we don't think about it, it don't exist, right? And it can be easily avoided while visiting family in the more upscale areas out that way like Canton and Livonia.

The polarization and segregation in Metro Detroit is far and away the biggest issue facing the region. If populations here assimilated I can almost assure you the crime in the city would disappear nearly overnight as the influence of the safer, and mostly upscale, suburbs would have an instant impact on the impoverished regions of the Detroit 'hoods creating opportunity for so many where before many had no idea what kinds of opportunities are available.
What does assimilation have to do with crime?
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:24 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,726 posts, read 5,115,122 times
Reputation: 2834
I am surprised no one said Philadelphia, considering how until the last decade the suburbs basically wanted nothing to do with the city.
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:25 AM
 
56,672 posts, read 80,973,859 times
Reputation: 12521
Quote:
Originally Posted by CondeCasio View Post
Probably Chicago and it's suburbs.


It's split between wealthy white liberals on the North Side and Northern suburbs, working class whites and Latinos on the NW and SW sides and suburbs, and poor and lower middle class blacks on the South Side and southern suburbs.



Of course it's more nuanced than that, like I'm from a mixed family (white dad from the Balkans, Mexican mother) from a Southwestern suburb but in my town there was also a lot of Arabs from Syria and Palestine, in addition to that there are are a few pockets of poor whites and ethnic minorities on the far North Side of the city and very wealthy white suburbs like Oak Park that literally border the poorest black ghettoes in Chicago on one side and very mediocre white/Latino suburbs on the other. Rich white liberal areas also have a lot of Indians, Chinese, Koreans and Jews, especially in the Northern suburbs. However the above descriptions are sure general patterns.
Isn't Oak Park quite diverse as well?
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:31 AM
 
2,800 posts, read 1,142,353 times
Reputation: 2671
Chicago is bad, but Milwaukee has to be worse. Almost all the suburbs are 90%+ white, African Americans are entirely on the north side. and Hispanics entirely on the south side. There is almost zero integration.
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,775 posts, read 1,773,768 times
Reputation: 3479
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
What does assimilation have to do with crime?
Metro Detroit has areas which are incredibly safe by the standards of even the safest metro areas. There are parts of Metro Detroit which have virtually no violent crime. There are also parts which crime is so prevalent that the name of city itself is often associated with violent crime. These two parts are so culturally polarized that if you visited them separately you would believe they were two different countries. If you were to look at the crime rate of all of Metro Detroit it would be about average with a typical large metro, this is despite the city being the second most violent city in the country and many of the suburbs being among the safest.

Were there less segregation and more opportunity created in all parts of the city by the influence of more business owners and investors, rather than these types only living/investing in the wealthy suburbs, there would be fewer people involving themselves in a life of crime, from a young age. As interest in the City is being shown by middle class and wealthy people crime is already falling significantly from its recession-era highs. The murder total so far for 2017 is ~30% below what it was at this point in 2016, which itself was even significantly below Pre-Bankruptcy years.
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:43 PM
 
793 posts, read 1,053,820 times
Reputation: 961
Yep - Detroit is so polarized. It was really hard to get used to when I first moved to the area about 15 years ago.

To a lot of people, what side of 8 mile you live on is REALLY important.

And to others, what county or town you live in is REALLY important.

Which car brand you drive is also a big one with people of my father's generation. (He's currently not thrilled that I drive an "import". Even though my 'import' was made in Indiana and a lot of the "domestics" have way more foreign parts than mine does).

Some people really don't know how to talk to you if you don't understand how to speak the language of division. I, often, had to ask my spouse what exactly do you mean by "east side" or "west side" or why are people making a big deal about where someone else lives. There's being divided, but the way that the Metro area talks and behaves is really excessive at times. It's really bizarre for someone like me who grew up being taught not to judge people by their skin color or where they live or whatever.

"Invisible" lines are really important here. Disturbingly so.

Even in smaller cities that I've lived in weren't this bad when it comes to polarization.

I go back to my hometown and literally laugh when my dad starts talking about the bad side of town because there are parts of the Metro that are so much worse (and it's tolerated!)

My husband worked in Milwaukee for awhile and noted some of the division that Milwaukee has. However, it would take a lot for it to even come close for it to be on par with Detroit.

It's really just disturbing the government tries to talk and work towards a more regional system and the people in many of the suburbs are really against it - even it's in our best interest to work together on some of these things. It's really an instant reaction (for some) to say let Detroit die - we don't care what goes on down there. Even though it's the biggest city in our state.

Things have gotten marginally better over the years because there's the regional board that meets now, but the physical and psychological divisions that people have created a lot more harm than good.

A lot of it can really be traced back to the '67 riot. The riot in Chicago during the 1960's didn't seem to have the same effect on their city as the riot in Detroit had on our region. People still poured into LA, even though the Watts burned. So while a similar event occurred in the same time frame - why did these cities still thrive and Detroit didn't? (Remembering that Detroit had millions of people in the core city).

So - yeah - put me down for as "another vote" for Detroit.
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:50 PM
 
Location: DMV Area
1,004 posts, read 603,348 times
Reputation: 1872
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopygirlmi View Post
Yep - Detroit is so polarized. It was really hard to get used to when I first moved to the area about 15 years ago.

To a lot of people, what side of 8 mile you live on is REALLY important.

And to others, what county or town you live in is REALLY important.

Which car brand you drive is also a big one with people of my father's generation. (He's currently not thrilled that I drive an "import". Even though my 'import' was made in Indiana and a lot of the "domestics" have way more foreign parts than mine does).

Some people really don't know how to talk to you if you don't understand how to speak the language of division. I, often, had to ask my spouse what exactly do you mean by "east side" or "west side" or why are people making a big deal about where someone else lives. There's being divided, but the way that the Metro area talks and behaves is really excessive at times. It's really bizarre for someone like me who grew up being taught not to judge people by their skin color or where they live or whatever.

"Invisible" lines are really important here. Disturbingly so.

Even in smaller cities that I've lived in weren't this bad when it comes to polarization.

I go back to my hometown and literally laugh when my dad starts talking about the bad side of town because there are parts of the Metro that are so much worse (and it's tolerated!)

My husband worked in Milwaukee for awhile and noted some of the division that Milwaukee has. However, it would take a lot for it to even come close for it to be on par with Detroit.

It's really just disturbing the government tries to talk and work towards a more regional system and the people in many of the suburbs are really against it - even it's in our best interest to work together on some of these things. It's really an instant reaction (for some) to say let Detroit die - we don't care what goes on down there. Even though it's the biggest city in our state.

Things have gotten marginally better over the years because there's the regional board that meets now, but the physical and psychological divisions that people have created a lot more harm than good.

A lot of it can really be traced back to the '67 riot. The riot in Chicago during the 1960's didn't seem to have the same effect on their city as the riot in Detroit had on our region. People still poured into LA, even though the Watts burned. So while a similar event occurred in the same time frame - why did these cities still thrive and Detroit didn't? (Remembering that Detroit had millions of people in the core city).

So - yeah - put me down for as "another vote" for Detroit.
Detroit's city limits are far smaller than those of Chicago or Los Angeles, so it was easy for things to be "out of sight, out of mind" for someone in the say, the San Fernando Valley, because Watts is relatively far away. The riots in 1992 were far more widespread than the 1965 riots. People were probably greatly affected a lot more due to proximity in Detroit.

I have a friend from Detroit who's a proud Eastsider and he's always saying sideways things about Oakland and Macomb County. I've never been to Detroit, so I really can't say, but it's very apparent how that mindset has affected his outlook on things. We both live in the DC Metro area, and the whole Maryland vs. DC. vs Virginia polarization dynamic is here, he says the polarization here is nowhere near as strong as Detroit vs. Everybody.
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Old 05-04-2017, 01:03 PM
 
3,227 posts, read 1,558,825 times
Reputation: 2354
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
I am surprised no one said Philadelphia, considering how until the last decade the suburbs basically wanted nothing to do with the city.
Most Philly locals avoid downplaying the city. To mention it here would. I'm surprised in all the DFW mentions though?
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