U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 05-08-2011, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,732 posts, read 12,148,922 times
Reputation: 2774

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
I think the most glaring differences between the Midwest and the Southeast are if you compare a large city in the Midwest with a small town in the Southeast. Chicago is, for the most part, expensive, liberal, and all business. Burnt Corn, Alabama? Not so much (and yes, there really is such a place!) However, when you compare small town to small town, the similarities between the two are quite obvious. I live in a small town in SE Michigan. The people here are friendly, down to earth, and genuine. The clerks in the grocery store actually do ask you how you're doing and discuss various topics with you. People actually do let you in in traffic. There are tons of pickup trucks with gun racks, deer hunters, tobacco chewers, and Confederate flag fliers. There are also tons of Southern accents, due to the mass influx of Southerners to Michigan during the 20th century to find work in the factories and their propensity to stay and raise their families here, resulting in people of all ages with extremely strong Southern roots. Small towns here are filled with people of Swiss/German descent and are largely Protestant, and the cities, where the Polish, Hungarian, and Irish settled, are much more Catholic. The only glaring difference between small towns in the South and small towns in the Midwest, as far as I can see, is that there are virtually no blacks in the small towns up here, whereas there are a lot of rural blacks in the South. Up here, 99% of blacks live in and around large cities. You would never see a black farmer here. The farmers here are, for the most part, white, Protestant, and of German descent.

Based on what I've seen and heard when I traveled in the Southeast and from what I read here on C-D, Southerners are generally much more open to Midwesterners moving there than people from the NE/NYC/NJ area, and I think that it has to do with the fact that we tend to be much more alike culturally.
Spot on!
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-08-2011, 12:00 PM
 
Location: NC/IL/MI
3,625 posts, read 7,169,075 times
Reputation: 1675
Someone earlier said that the midwest is mostly Catholic but I disagree. The Urban areas are the only places that are majority Catholic but the rest of the region is Mainly Protestant (esp. Luthertan in the upper, Christian Reform in West Michigan, and Methodist)

mas23
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2011, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,346 posts, read 7,420,095 times
Reputation: 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by mas23 View Post
Someone earlier said that the midwest is mostly Catholic but I disagree. The Urban areas are the only places that are majority Catholic but the rest of the region is Mainly Protestant (esp. Luthertan in the upper, Christian Reform in West Michigan, and Methodist)

mas23
I agree with this. I grew up in rural NW Ohio and there weren't very many Catholics in our small town, nor in the other small towns around us. Almost everyone was Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, or some other Protestant denomination. A recent trend in the Upper Midwest has been small Catholic churches in rural communities being closed by the diocese that they belong to (Detroit, Toledo, etc.) due to dwindling membership. However, the cities in this part of the country have some of the most spectacular Catholic churches in the country and they seem to be going strong. Detroit, in particular, has some Catholic churches that would knock your socks off, they're so beautiful. I'm not Catholic and I don't live in Detroit, but I've seen pictures. Unbelievable.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 05:09 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 8,998,915 times
Reputation: 1798
I mean, it looks like there's a lot of Catholics in the rural Midwest. People are forgetting that not all Germans were Protestants. They were split between Catholics & Protestants. People are making it seem like all the Catholic Germans moved to the cities while all the Protestant Germans moved to the rural areas. That doesn't seem true according to this map...



Quote:
Originally Posted by mas23 View Post
Someone earlier said that the midwest is mostly Catholic but I disagree. The Urban areas are the only places that are majority Catholic but the rest of the region is Mainly Protestant (esp. Luthertan in the upper, Christian Reform in West Michigan, and Methodist)

mas23
Might not wanna generalize with the word "only" There are 2 counties that I pass through on my way to St. Louis: Ste Genevieve County & Perry County in MO. They are very rural and very Catholic due to French & German influence. There are plenty of places like that in the Midwest.

Last edited by Smtchll; 05-10-2011 at 05:19 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,346 posts, read 7,420,095 times
Reputation: 6782
The thing about that map, though, is that the Protestant denominations are all counted separately, so if you take a county where there are 5,000 Catholics, 4,500 Lutherans, 2,500 Methodists, 1,800 Baptists, and maybe 1,000 members of other Protestant denominations (typical here in the Midwest), it would still look on that map like it was majority Catholic when in reality, the Protestants outnumber the Catholics by almost two to one, which I, a lifelong resident of the Upper Midwest, can attest to be the truth. I can think of at least a dozen small towns off the top of my head that have one Catholic church where every Catholic in town goes and at least half a dozen Protestant churches where everyone else goes. In the small and mid-sized towns in my area, Catholics are there, but they're definitely a minority, with the exception of places like Monroe, MI which was settled by the French and has a strong Catholic influence. And there may be some Catholic Germans, but the Germans who settled this area are almost 100% Lutheran or Methodist. Also, as I made reference to in my pp, many of the small towns here simply cannot support a Catholic church because of dwindling attendance, so several have them have been torn down or boarded up. If you don't believe me, google the Toledo or Detroit dioceses. It has really been quite an issue for the few parishioners who remain and don't want to see their childhood church torn down or closed. It's sad.

If that map was broken down simply into Catholic and Protestant, it would look much different and more accurate. However, seeing as how it was printed by Glenmary, a Catholic organization, I can see what their motive was in doing it the way that they did. Very clever, but again, very inaccurate. Sorry.

Last edited by canudigit; 05-10-2011 at 06:12 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 06:16 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 8,998,915 times
Reputation: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
The thing about that map, though, is that the Protestant denominations are all counted separately, so if you take a county where there are 5,000 Catholics, 4,500 Lutherans, 2,500 Methodists, 1,800 Baptists, and maybe 1,000 members of other Protestant denominations (typical here in the Midwest), it would still look on that map like it was majority Catholic when in reality, the Protestants outnumber the Catholics by almost two to one, which I, a lifelong resident of the Upper Midwest, can attest to be the truth. I can think of at least a dozen small towns off the top of my head that have one Catholic church where every Catholic in town goes and at least half a dozen Protestant churches where everyone else goes. In the small and mid-sized towns in my area, Catholics are there, but they're definitely a minority, with the exception of places like Monroe, MI which was settled by the French and has a strong Catholic influence. And there may be some Catholic Germans, but the Germans who settled this area are almost 100% Lutheran or Methodist. Also, as I made reference to in my pp, many of the small towns here simply cannot support a Catholic church because of dwindling attendance, so several have them have been torn down or boarded up. If you don't believe me, google the Toledo or Detroit dioceses. It has really been quite an issue for the few parishioners who remain and don't want to see their childhood church torn down or closed. It's sad.

If that map was broken down simply into Catholic and Protestant, it would look much different and more accurate. However, seeing as how it was printed by Glenmary, a Catholic organization, I can see what their motive was in doing it the way that they did. Very clever, but again, very inaccurate. Sorry.
I'm not saying that the blue counties are majority Catholic, but they obviously have a notable Catholic presence being the largest denomination in those counties. I posted that map to show that Catholics aren't absent from the rural Midwest like some people are suggesting. They're not just confined to the cities; many have the same German roots as Protestant Midwesterners and thus ended up in the same towns. If a town is just 25% Catholic, that's still a large number, and that would be almost unheard of in the rural South (with the exception of a few areas) So I'm mainly disagreeing with the notion that the rural Midwest is like the rural South as far as religious makeup goes. You'd have a hard time finding many towns in the South that are Mainline Protestant dominated with a large Catholic minority. And yes, Mainline Protestants and Evangelical Protestants are very different. That contributes to a lot of the cultural differences between the South & Midwest.

And I don't see how it was somehow a Catholic "motive" to post a map with all the different denominations instead of just Catholics vs Protestants. I think it's much more interesting to see the different denominations because not all Protestant denominations are the same. They're not a unified, collective body. A Protestant/Catholic map would be interesting, but it wouldn't tell you much at all because Protestant denominations vary so much; and i'm sure if a map like that were posted, people would be wondering why their individual denominations aren't shown.

I'm pretty sure the people that made the map got their numbers from the Association of Religious Data Archives http://thearda.com/ (not associated with any denomination) because it matches up with the numbers posted on the site.

Last edited by Smtchll; 05-10-2011 at 06:45 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,346 posts, read 7,420,095 times
Reputation: 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I'm not saying that the blue counties are majority Catholic, but they obviously have a notable Catholic presence being the largest denomination in those counties. I posted that map to show that Catholics aren't absent from the rural Midwest like some people are suggesting. They're not just confined to the cities; many have the same German roots as Protestant Midwesterners and thus ended up in the same towns. If a town is just 25% Catholic, that's still a large number, and that would be almost unheard of in the rural South (with the exception of a few areas) So I'm mainly disagreeing with the notion that the rural Midwest is like the rural South as far as religious makeup goes. You'd have a hard time finding many towns in the South that are Mainline Protestant dominated with a large Catholic minority. And yes, Mainline Protestants and Evangelical Protestants are very different. That contributes to a lot of the cultural differences between the South & Midwest.

And I don't see how it was somehow a Catholic "motive" to post a map with all the different denominations instead of just Catholics vs Protestants. I think it's much more interesting to see the different denominations because not all Protestant denominations are the same. They're not a unified, collective body. A Protestant/Catholic map would be interesting, but it wouldn't tell you much at all because Protestant denominations vary so much; and i'm sure if a map like that were posted, people would be wondering why their individual denominations aren't shown.

I'm pretty sure the people that made the map got their numbers from the Association of Religious Data Archives http://thearda.com/ (not associated with any denomination) because it matches up with the numbers posted on the site.
I do see your point, and I do agree that Catholics are definitely not nonexistent in the small towns of the Midwest. However, I don't look at Catholicism as just another denomination, because they differ so much doctrinally from all of the Protestant denominations. There is a greater divide between Catholic/Protestant than there is between Lutheran/Methodist, because if you're Catholic you fall under the authority of the Pope--nothing wrong with that--and if you're any type of Protestant you don't, and that's a big distinction.

I didn't mean to start a debate, and I can definitely see where you're coming from on some of your points. I am just relating my experience as having been raised in a very religious family in a fairly religous part of the Upper Midwest and still living here now that I'm middle aged. Catholics definitely live here, they are just a minority unless you're in a large city. The map in your post indicates that almost every county in my state, Michigan, is majority Catholic and that simply isn't the case. Up here, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists and Nondenominationals far outnumber Catholics in the rural counties.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 07:09 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 8,998,915 times
Reputation: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
I do see your point, and I do agree that Catholics are definitely not nonexistent in the small towns of the Midwest. However, I don't look at Catholicism as just another denomination, because they differ so much doctrinally from all of the Protestant denominations. There is a greater divide between Catholic/Protestant than there is between Lutheran/Methodist, because if you're Catholic you fall under the authority of the Pope--nothing wrong with that--and if you're any type of Protestant you don't, and that's a big distinction.

I didn't mean to start a debate, and I can definitely see where you're coming from on some of your points. I am just relating my experience as having been raised in a very religious family in a fairly religous part of the Upper Midwest and still living here now that I'm middle aged. Catholics definitely live here, they are just a minority unless you're in a large city. The map in your post indicates that almost every county in my state, Michigan, is majority Catholic and that simply isn't the case. Up here, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists and Nondenominationals far outnumber Catholics in the rural counties.
No worries. I think there's a little confusion. The colored counties simply indicate the largest denomination in the county, not the majority denomination. When there's a black dot, that indicates that the denomination is at least 50% of the population in that county. So none of the counties in Michigan are majority Catholic, but it is the largest individual denomination in most counties.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 07:43 AM
 
Location: NC/IL/MI
3,625 posts, read 7,169,075 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I mean, it looks like there's a lot of Catholics in the rural Midwest. People are forgetting that not all Germans were Protestants. They were split between Catholics & Protestants. People are making it seem like all the Catholic Germans moved to the cities while all the Protestant Germans moved to the rural areas. That doesn't seem true according to this map...





Might not wanna generalize with the word "only" There are 2 counties that I pass through on my way to St. Louis: Ste Genevieve County & Perry County in MO. They are very rural and very Catholic due to French & German influence. There are plenty of places like that in the Midwest.

What I'm trying to say is that Protestants still have a bigger influence and more numbers in the rural areas of the midwest. Im not saying that Catholics do not exist in the rural areas because they certainly do have a bigger presence in rural areas compared to the South. Eventhough Catholics might make up the largest group of worshipers in one county doesn't mean they outnumber ALL the Prostestant denominations

EDIT: I read the following posts and I agree

Last edited by mas23; 05-10-2011 at 07:52 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,495 posts, read 10,798,327 times
Reputation: 4060
Quote:
Originally Posted by mas23 View Post
What I'm trying to say is that Protestants still have a bigger influence and more numbers in the rural areas of the midwest.....
Hard to say, I think, because protestants are rarely unified -- there are some big differences between mainline and evangelical protestant groups.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top